[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, authors. I'm Joanne Morell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short Nonfiction for Authors. Thanks for joining me for the Hybrid Author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your book. You can get the show notes for each episode and sign up for your free author pass over at the Hybrid Author website to discover your writing process, get tips on how to publish productively, and get comfortable promoting your books at www.hybridauthor.com au. Let's crack on with the episode.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Hello, authors.
[00:00:45] Speaker C: I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to. The podcast in today's interview is with Julie Ann Grasso, and we chat about producing indie audiobooks for kids. Julie's processes and setup, DIY audio booths, public library recording studios, narration and character accents, and preparing voice marketing, selling direct, and Julie shares her advice to authors looking to produce their own books.
So, on my author adventure this week, I am really deep into the edits of my women's fiction book, The Writer, the Hairdresser and the Nurse. In case you missed that title. Last week's episode, I have secured an editor. I'm just finalizing it all to get it ready to send to her.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: I'm not rushing now.
[00:01:36] Speaker C: I've moved my release date to the start of next year, so it's all pretty relaxed, which was not relaxed, but it's not manically crazy, and I'm giving it a good going over. And yeah, I'm really enjoying it and I think it's a really good piece of work, so I can't wait to share it with the world. There's some exciting emails that are flying back and forth for events that I am possibly partaking in next year. There's a literary festival and also possibly some library workshops. So yeah, it's pretty cool that these things are kind of coming around from my own doing, which is great. And I do apologize. I did say that I would share the blurb of my women's fiction book in this episode, but I'm actually not ready to yet, so I will definitely share that when I am. So apologies if you're waiting to hear that it is on its way. Congrats to everybody who's at the end of Nanorimo. I hope that you achieved something if you didn't hit your target goals. Good on you for giving it a go. Those of you who made it to the end, well done. Congrats this time of year to take that on. It's pretty full on, so at least you'll feel like you've achieved something at the end of the year, so well done. I've got the end of year squibby do this Sunday, which will be nice to see everybody, because I've been a bit recluse these last couple months, just head down, trying to get this work finished. I haven't been going to any events really at all since I went to that zannie Louise course, so it'll be nice to catch up with people. That's about the only Christmas event I'm going to in terms of in the literary scene. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. I think it will be a nice change.
So if you love the podcast or any of the episodes have helped you further in your author career, you can now pay it forward by buying me a coffee
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[00:03:29] Speaker B: Julie Ann Grasso is an indie author of the Frankie Dupont mystery series. For middle grade, she works part time in public libraries as a storyteller and in July 2024, her debut picture book, Hooray Hooray, it's Library Day, will be released by Scholastic, making her an official hybrid author.
[00:03:49] Speaker D: Welcome to the hybrid author podcast, Julie. Thank you, Jo.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: Great to be oh, we're so honoured and thrilled to have obviously, you know, you're in the thick of your career, but can you tell us how you first came to join the writing and publishing worlds?
[00:04:04] Speaker D: Yeah, it's not the regular path. I didn't start writing as soon as I could hold a pencil, the way a lot of people seem to come to it. I was a pediatric nurse for 13 years and during that time people used to say to me, because I was always singing to the kids, you're going to do this forever. What would your dream job be? And I would say, oh, writing kids books, 100%. I'd never written a kid's book, but I kind of moved out of nursing and I was sort of working for a medical company and they were sending me all over the world and I was sitting in know, prolonged periods of time and my husband Danny just said to me, why don't you write your book? I did. I started, I had my first baby and then indie published my first sort of trilogy and then just sort of kept going and wrote my Frankie Dupont mysteries and published four of them. And by the time my son came along four years later yeah, I officially had seven books in the world.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:05:07] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: That's quite a story. I didn't know that about you. That's really interesting. And it's just been going really well ever since.
[00:05:14] Speaker D: Yeah, well, I mean, indie publishing is definitely a different landscape now.
Back in the day you could sort of go on Amazon and you could put your book for free and it would get this sort of exponential audience that you didn't really expect and then they'd start buying your book and that's kind of where I entered the indie space. It's certainly a lot different now and it's a very saturated audience and middle grade is really hard to target because it's a gatekeeper audience, so you have to target the parents and the librarians and the bookshop owners, et cetera. So it's always been part of me, but I haven't actually published another indie book for eight years.
Yeah, it's funny. In that time though, I have written something like 58 books.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:06:10] Speaker D: Probably ten in middle grade and the rest picture books.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: So you've obviously got a big backlist there that you could put out. You've been submitting as well to traditional publishers too.
[00:06:23] Speaker D: Yeah, I've had a couple of agents, even over that time, that tried to put my middle grade on submission and they were a sort of historic middle grade, I guess, which is a really tough market to enter. And I didn't manage to sell those books and sort of parted amicably with those agents, but just kept writing and doing my own thing. I've also become part of Kidlitvic over the last five or six years. I'm on the board, a panel of Kidlitvic, so I have gotten to know a lot of publishers as well. Submitting my books is yeah, it's been happening over years and years and it was not until literally December last year that I got my first.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Mean. You're not alone there. That seems to be the way of it for a lot of authors, especially in the children's space. And I'm still plugging away as well. Submitting, but exactly that. You don't give up, you stick it out, you keep going. And eventually everybody I know, eventually that has stayed the path has ended up with a deal. Yet I just need to keep on drugging that's, right?
Well, today's topic is on producing indie audiobooks for kids because this is something you are doing currently. So you've got your traditional deal now, but why did you decide to produce your own audiobooks for your mystery series?
[00:07:51] Speaker D: Yeah, look, I have been an audiobook sort of connoisseur for quite a while now. I think maybe during the pandemic it really ramped up because there was just nothing else to do. And I'm in Melbourne, so we had the official worst lockdown ever. So, I mean, I would just be listening to audiobooks while my kids were going about their day and just studying those voices and how they do it and it just literally became an obsession. And I thought, you know what, I would love to do this one day. I've got a fairly low female voice, as you can hear, which means I think I've got the depth of range to be able to do male voices now. You don't actually need a deep voice to do male voices. Like lots of female authors manage it. Audiobook Narrators I should say they manage it, but I think it certainly is something that I'd love. I'd wanted to try and then I thought about it and I'm like, I've got seven indie published books. Yeah, I don't have to ask anyone for permission to do this. And I feel like my first three books were really my trial, like my trial books. But my Frankie books really have hit such a like they've really resonated with eight to twelve year olds. I've sold them really well and they're not long, they're only maximum 20,000 words. So I could potentially rate that without basically losing my mind. And so I reached out to Sarah Bacala, who is an audiobook producer from Voices of Today, and just said, look, this really interests me. And she really sort of generously talked me through a know details that I'd need to get started. And it was a year later that I actually gave it a go. My husband gave me a microphone for Christmas last year and I just did nothing with it, eventually just went, I've got to do this and when I get something in my mind, I do it. So I recorded the first Frankie and made agreements with Sarah at Voices of Today and she's engineered it and produced it and it's going to be on all the platforms November 20 eigth. So I'm super excited, but I haven't stopped. I've recorded the second book as well and I actually went into the library studio because I work in libraries, professional studio and started recording the second one just to sort of see the difference and if I'm happy with my home set up. And that's why I'm actually in my home set up right now, ready to record book three.
[00:10:19] Speaker B: Amazing. So tell us about your first experience of recording. Obviously you've produced that with Sarah.
Was that through the library space or no, you went in somewhere where she was?
[00:10:32] Speaker D: No, I never actually met Sarah. Only ever met her on Zoom. No. I set up my laundry to be my faux studio. So I made it as soundproof as I could. And we live in this sort of really OD little townhouse that has this laundry that has three doors. So one side is a toilet, one side is a garage, one side is a kitchen. So it's like a little booth. And I'm like and basically you just need a little booth to be able to record and to soundproof the walls. It's sort of DIY, but it works. And so I sent the files along to Sarah and I recorded like over 4 hours and just bashed it out. And she gave me some wonderful feedback about what I'd done and she's like, but the actual sound is good, we can use our machine to make. And I was like, okay. So I rerecorded it and I just did it over two hour sort of lots because you get very tired and it's hard to maintain the accents and the sort of intonation and the concentration. So I re recorded the whole thing and sent that through to Sarah. And she does a lot of editing and you make a lot of mistakes. So she sends you back a really long list of what they call pickups. You listen to the previous file and you rerecord that one word. So once the pickups are done, it's really about that endpoint engineering and distribution, which Sarah's company takes care of wow, that's amazing.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: So lots of things that come up from everything you've just said when you were soundproofing your laundry, what kind of.
[00:12:03] Speaker C: Things did you use?
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Was it like underlay or was it like what you see in the radio stations? Like the egg boxes?
[00:12:08] Speaker D: Yeah, look, you can actually buy that stuff online, I have realized after the fact. But because it's a laundry, it needs to be a set up that I can replicate and also take down in 4 hours. So I started with weighted blankets because my son's Autistic so we have weighted blankets galore in our house and they were really difficult to keep on the wall. But I installed just three M hooks sort of around the door frames and started hanging just towels like attached with pants hangers. So I've actually done a reel and shown what the setup looks like. So if you want to head over to my you can have a look. And then I hung blackout curtains, which there's probably no real reason to do that other than an extra layer of stuff. And I've also made sure I've put like blankets down on the floor and blankets on my table. So yeah, it's as contained as I can get it. You still have the ceiling height is probably going to be a problem, but because I am actually recording with the microphone directly in front of me and all my soundproofing around me, it seems to work.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: No, fantastic, that's great. And what about in terms of preparing your voice? Do you do anything about that? Do you gargle anything or avoid certain foods or do a.
[00:13:29] Speaker D: I actually don't eat until I have recorded and I do that even in library because I am a storyteller singer. So I sing to basically 200 people a day.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Oh wow.
[00:13:42] Speaker D: And in sort of 30 minutes lots and there's a lot of use of the diaphragm and I've got quite bad reflux, so I don't eat anything. I do drink like I drink chai lattes before I sing, but I get very hangry by about midday so I know that it's only going to be 3 hours, so I hold out. But I do do a little bit of vocal warm up. I am a singer, but my favorite song at the moment is actually like Beauty and the Beast because it's got a really great range. There goes a bagel with a stray like always the same old bread and rolls to sell and then making blazer wound Mary Bell making blazer wound Mary Bell so I'm going up in my range and down in my range I sing that for about ten minutes. Probably would drive everyone insane if they had to listen to it.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: No, it was fantastic. It gave me goosebumps, actually.
[00:14:35] Speaker D: And that's my warm up song. And then basically I just start. I use a program that Sarah uses called Audacity which is actually a completely free program and once you've installed Audacity, and you have a microphone.
It took me a whole book to learn how to do what they call punch and roll, which is self editing and re dubbing as you go. So instead of me providing Sarah with six takes for the one sentence, I now retake my sentence over and over and over until I'm happy with it, and then I keep rolling. So I'm sure Sarah's going to be exponentially grateful that I've learned to punch and roll. I didn't for the first meant she's a master, but a lot of her choosing which sentence was the best, which intonation work, that kind of stuff.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that's amazing. And yeah, thank you for singing there. I was going to ask you. So that was good that you did. No, that's great. And in terms of because obviously said your previous career and you used to sing a lot, so have you had any professional singing? You obviously do it for a job, but have you had any professional singing training or anything like that when you pursue singing as a to record a song or anything, like, professionally in that regard or not?
[00:15:50] Speaker D: I think if I had a different path, maybe in my earlier life, I may have become a singer. I mean, I'm not saying that I'm good enough to be a singer. I think anyone can be a singer, really. You hear some of the most famous singers have really gravelly voices. Yeah, my pathway really was I did have some singing lessons when I was in my teens, and I really enjoyed that, but I didn't feel like I wanted to make a lifetime goal of it, if you know what I mean. But I became a nurse and then was pretty much singing every day to kids because I was a pediatric nurse. So I kind of fulfilled two life goals there, to help people and sing at the same time. Nursing for me was an amazing time in my life, but, gosh, it's a hard job to keep going with. And when I kind of moved out of that and sort of started moving into the author space, the library really became the next port of call for me. And I did I mean, I've been in libraries for four years now, but I entered as a casual, always knowing that I wanted to be on the children's team. And the way I really got into libraries was because I had a podcast about middle grade you know, we launched that because we loved middle grade books, Pamela Yukerman and I, and we just wanted to talk about middle grade books. And then I've done a podcast with you, Joe, and all the books started rolling in to our PO box. So I was like, okay, we've got all these books now. I guess we'll keep going. And we did the podcast for about three years. But, yeah, using my voice has always been part of my job in some way, but not in the way I probably would have dreamed about it. My teens learning to be a singer, if you know what I mean.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think it would be very hard to pursue singing career as well as say, the writing career at the same time. Both sort of creative professional industry stuff is probably the same, and that you have to go for jobs and get rejected and all that sort of stuff would be quite hard. I guess my question is, do you feel like someone has to be a professional voice person or someone who can sing to be able to voice their own audiobooks?
[00:17:52] Speaker D: I don't think you need to be a singer at all, but you certainly need to have played around with your voice, done silly accents or I mean, not every voice narrator uses 79 different accents. My first Frankie book has about twelve accents in wow. And I'm technically listening to your accent right now, Joe, and probably going to try and replicate it one day, you know what I mean? I do have a Scottish accent that I pull out because I can roll my hours very well, but my husband's Italian and he doesn't actually speak Italian at home. And when we were in Italy, I understood more than he did and I was able to sort of say more words back because I was a singer that learnt to sing in Italian and to roll my r's. But I don't think you don't need to be a singer at all, you just need to want to read books. I just started. I don't think that I have any particular talent at it. I just started and I've made a go of it. And I think a lot of people fall into voice narration because they've got a nice sounding voice and people say, I like the sound of your voice, and that has happened to me as well, but can have a really very different sounding voice and still be a voice narrator. So the answer is yes and no.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: I absolutely agree. I think when I started podcasting, especially going back to edit, I just cringe like the sound of my voice. You get used to it, though, and you don't have to love it, but you can learn to kind of like it. And I think there's some audiobooks where you don't have to do. I'm a big audiobook person myself as well, and you don't have to do so many voices, I guess, as long as you've got passion or animation coming through for each character or it's not just that bland monotone.
[00:19:42] Speaker D: Yeah. And if you are a bit of an audiobook connoisseur, you know immediately when you listen, if you're going to listen to that whole book, I will literally turn off an audiobook within about two minutes if I don't like the narrator.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I've done it as well. I'm like, oh, no, I can't listen to would be. What would your advice be to authors looking to produce their own audiobooks for kids?
[00:20:06] Speaker D: I would honestly do sarah Beckela's. Course. She's just released a course with the Australian Writers Centre. She just really details exactly like indie authors, and traditionally published authors can certainly do audiobooks, and her course really does run through how to do this. Audiobook rights weren't even sold back in the day, so they weren't in contracts, but they have been, obviously, more recently. She sort of talks you through about how to do it, even if your publisher still has your rights. So there are ways it's whether or not you want to narrate it yourself, which people can choose to do I certainly did. Or whether or not you want to pay for a service to do it, which you can do as well. Through Voices of Today in Australia, we can't actually go on all the platforms without a middle company. So in America, it's called ACX, I think, and it's like Audiobook Exchange and that gets you onto Audible and all the, whatever, 50 platforms, but Australians can't actually do that. So you do need a middle company like Voices Of Today to get you onto one of the companies that uploads to Audible. And I'm specifically with Voices Of Today with Blackstone Library, they get me on all the platforms and everything is done from there and through Sarah. At Voices of Today. If you're in America or the UK, you can actually go directly to ACX, I believe. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the audiobook world, because Sarah is the expert. This is what she sort of told me. So if people want to do it, they can certainly decide. Do their own little faux studio or many libraries, many public libraries will have a recording studio that are fairly reasonably priced. You can go into your own audiobook studio, learn to use Audacity. It didn't take me that long to use it. Have yourself a microphone that isn't that expensive. I think mine was about $250. And basically start recording your audiobook. I mean, there are some sort of things you need to know before you do that. Like, you don't just record the entire audiobook, you record in tracks, so the first chapter, et cetera. But if you're going to get started on it, the best thing is to just get started. And if you really hate it, you're going to be sitting there for a really long time narrating your own words. If you don't want to do your own, I suggest and like my Frankie, books are only 20,000 words, but the average book is 80,000 words in the adult sphere, 40,000 for middle grade. So if you don't want to be there for a really long time narrating your own book, then pay someone else to do it. Or approach your publisher and say, I really want to do audiobooks. Can we make this happen? And a lot of them.
It is about accessibility and about making these books more readily available to more people. So they may be keen to do it. Maybe you've just got to ask.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's amazing advice. So with Sarah's course, you obviously done her course in terms of the editing and stuff that you sent her. So was that an extra cost involved that you decided to go with her for her services, or is that part of the course and stuff?
[00:23:15] Speaker D: So I disclaim I haven't technically done Sarah's course because she sort of schooled me through this before the course was available. But yes, I did pay for so and obviously every book is different. And that's why you would reach out to Voices of Today and say, I have this book. It's this many words, I want to narrate it myself. And they will give you a rate for editing and then proofreading. So there's two separate rates. And if your book is 80,000 words, then, yeah, you can sort of budget for that. Having a Narrator on the top is another expense, but if you're going to narrate it yourself, you wipe out that expense. But I chose to go with paying for editing up front and then them taking a certain percentage. I couldn't tell you the actual amount. I think it might be 15% of my royalties as an audiobook narrator. They get me on the platforms, but they still take a royalty, which is completely normal in the realm.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: How come with your podcast? Did you guys edit it yourself? Did you edit your podcast? I'm just wondering why you didn't choose to do the audiobook narration editing yourself.
[00:24:25] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a lot more complex than just making sure it sounds okay, if you know what I mean. Like, Sarah is incredibly skilled in audio engineering, so it's background noises. It's noises with your mouth that you've accidentally made. It's the breath sounds in between. We did not do any editing on our podcast other than making sure the beginning and end intro happened, but that was a while ago. Now we know a bit more about editing. I could certainly edit a podcast now that I've used audacity. Obviously we're not actually podcasting at the moment, or maybe ever.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Is this something that you'll maybe do for your audiobooks in the future, though? Maybe take over the editing?
[00:25:11] Speaker D: The more definitely like, I am still self editing, but there's no way I would ever engineer it, if you fair enough. Yeah. And there are so many more things that go into getting that file ready to go onto the platforms. And you also need a cover that's reimaged audiobooks are weird. They're like a square cover.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: Yeah, they are an OD size.
[00:25:33] Speaker D: Yeah, they're really OD. And you'll actually see a lot of audiobook covers look a bit OD even in traditionally published books because they've got a beautiful cover that works in a paperback. It works in an ebook. And then audiobooks are completely different and they're not going to re engineer that cover, know all the separate multiple images. So they kind of crop it, know, make it look as best they can. Sarah actually had to do that with my Frankie books, she made it look really good. And they put their own logo on Voices of Today as well, so that has to be done. And that's factored into the cost as well, so that when it goes onto the platform it will be approved first time, there will be no edits needed kind of thing.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Yeah, no that's great. And then also with the library, there's a local library that I know that's got a podcasting sort of set up inside it. I haven't actually seen it or anything, but what's the time limit on sort of booking these things? Is it an hour, a couple of hours? And also is it free?
[00:26:29] Speaker D: It really does depend on your local library. Most local libraries will have what they call a community rate and I think it's about $25 an hour, which is incredibly low for a studio. I wouldn't be able to tell you what a professional studio would cost, but I am certain to be in the hundreds for an hour. It really depends if they've got other bookings. You'll often find that library studios are underused our library studio. I work in a library of five and we've got two studios. One is a proper professional studio and the bookings in that aren't huge. So I was able to sort of get a couple of hours a week quite easily and then more even if I needed it, to do my second. Frankie book really depends on the library booking system and how they go about it. But honestly, look up your local library and see if they've got a studio, it's really well worth it. Or doctor it up yourself at home.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: Yeah, no, fair enough. I've did a couple of nonfiction audiobooks that again they're just short, so I just felt like I had to pump it out in one session because my voice would be different with each little individual thing. Did you find that or not really.
[00:27:35] Speaker D: I felt the same when I first started recording, but in the industry they do say you don't record for more than two or 3 hours, I guess, unless you're sort of going to a professional studio and you're doing 8 hours in total. I've heard that's absolutely grueling.
Yeah, if you're going to pump it out. The other thing is there is absolutely no reason why you can't listen back to your own file and recreate your own voice similar, which is what you end up having to do with an audiobook because there's no way you could record the 80,000 words in one go. So when I actually started Frankie book two, a lot of those characters are in the second book, so I had to go back and listen to. How I pitch those first characters. Even Frankie's Voice Frankie's voice is the most natural to me because that was the first one. And my narrator voice is my most natural voice. Like, this is my narrator voice, so I don't have to think about my narrator voice. And that's really key. You should never have to think about your narrator voice. It's your accents and your characters and your intonation that you really need to think about. So listening back to my previous Frankie, just for five minutes, I knew where my voices were and I kept going. And when they give you your edits, you listen back to that file before you basically hit record.
[00:28:55] Speaker B: And then did you, before the whole process, sit with the book and actually practice like you read the whole thing aloud with the voices copy out? Or did you just go for your life because you knew the story so well and the voices and the characters?
[00:29:07] Speaker D: Yes, I did. Both I did sit down and read it aloud because I hadn't read my own book for eight years.
I actually can't even remember how this book ends. And also I needed to determine how many voices I was going to need to do so. Definitely. And professional audiobook narrators will read the book two or three times, making sure they've got their characters down.
But once you sort of have read it enough, it's time to just get started. There's no more preparation needed, no more dawdling. Just start recording.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's it. I think that's the sound advice in this industry for anything, isn't it? Just get started. Just go for your life and keep going and don't look back. And I think I'll just add to the conversation that the same as anything with writing and stuff. If anyone wants to do this, the best way is obviously to be an audiobook listener, especially in the genre that they're trying to put one out in children's and review how it's all chopped up. In the sections. You've got the introduction, the end note. There's all little bits and pieces. I got threw off by that because I had done it all in a 1 hour. And then when it kept uploading onto, I put mines on Findaway Voices, which.
[00:30:17] Speaker D: I've got to have a look at.
[00:30:18] Speaker B: The moment because the royalty that I've been getting and I haven't been selling a lot of the nonfiction books, it's like a pittance. And I thought, this can't be right, surely. So I've got to review that as well. And then I got asked for all these little files and I thought, oh, gosh, I had to go back because I'm used to audio editing and stuff. With nonfiction, it's just straight my voice. So it was pretty easy, like a podcast go through and chop up the files and stuff. But there was these little bits to it. But it's definitely, I feel, a market that everybody should be in because yeah, audiobooks are great. They open up to such a wide range of audience as well and I think everyone should do it. So congrats on all your upcoming success.
Your books are going to be up on all the platforms and for sale. Are you going to be selling them direct as well?
[00:31:04] Speaker D: No, not at all.
It's actually not possible and I've signed a contract in order to make this happen with Voices of today, but I can give away free codes, so I think I've got 20 codes but they upload directly from Blackstone Library. So when I give away a free book, I'm not giving it away on Audible, I'm giving it away on Blackstone Library, which is just the way that they particularly do things. But I have seen audiobook narrators giving away audible codes and all that kind of stuff to create buzz. I'll be doing that, but just not with Audible, you know what I mean? But you can still find it on all of the 50 platforms, et cetera.
[00:31:44] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much for your time and expertise. Julie, can you share where the audiobooks, any links you want to or any sites that everybody can discover you on and offline?
[00:31:55] Speaker D: Absolutely. You can find me at WW dot juliangrassobooks.com and I think I've already got an audiobook like little tab on my website and it goes live November 20 eigth. So stay tuned. So exciting.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much, Julie. That was amazing.
[00:32:12] Speaker D: Thanks, Joe.
[00:32:19] Speaker C: So there you have it, folks, the truly sunshine that is Julie Anne Grasso. Please go and check out her books, her audiobooks and all she does with the links that are shared next time on the Hyperdother podcast. It's that time of year again and when we have an almost Merry Christmas mashup of half the guest list from mid year and then the rest to follow in the real Merry Christmas mashup. I wish you well in your author adventure this next week. That's it from me.
[00:32:46] Speaker D: Bye for now.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: That's the end for now, authors. I hope you are further forward in your author adventure after listening and I hope you'll listen next time, remember to head on over to the Hyper Bridauthor website at www.hybridauthor.com dot au to get your free author pass. It's bye for now.
