Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello authors. I'm Joanne Morell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for Authors. Thanks for joining me for the hybrid author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your book. You can get the show notes for each episode and sign up for your free author pass over at the hybrid author website to discover your writing process, get tips on how to publish productively and get comfortable promoting your book at www.hybridauthor.com au. Let's crack on with the episode.
Hello authors, I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to the podcast in. It's the 1 December and that means it's almost Xmas, so today's interview is an almost merry Xmas mashup of past hybrid author guests since June of this year 2023. This includes episode 79 marketing advertising for authors with prolific crime thriller writer Philip Strang. Episode 80 brock Swinson on Ink by the Barrel secrets from prolific writers. Episode 81 Shanae Maripodi, the Do's and don'ts of a debut author. Episode 82 repetitive strain injury RSI and writers and award winning children's author Meg McKinley. Episode 83 dr Aparna Barua on women leading the way. Episode 84 writing Metaphor with Children's author Molly Fernandez Episode 85 Intuitive Somatic mentor and award winning nonfiction author Stacy Webb on limiting beliefs in authorship. Episode 86 a body of work with award winning young adult author AJ. Betts. Episode 87 small Press author process with Children's Author jen Sherrington and Wildeyed Press Publisher Leanne White Episode 88 breaking into screenwriting with children's author and screenwriter Catherine LaFroy. Episode 89 presenting to kids with Nat Amore and Kathy Tasker. Episode 90, signing your second book deal with children's picture book author Jibita Nielsen. And finally, episode 91 your hybrid author profile and how to build balance sustaining a hybrid author career with me dramarell in my author adventure. This week, I am still doing the edits for my women's fiction novel The Writer, the Hairdresser and the Nurse, and I'm doing these edits to get them across to the editor I've sourced for the book and it just feels like a bit of a mammoth task at present. Just trying not to feel too overwhelmed by it because it's just such a long piece of work. I started out in the children's fiction genre, quite small writing, so this work and even my short nonfiction books are always like under 20,000 words, so this is like triple the size of anything I've ever written before, but it's been nice to go back to the beginning of the story. I really love the story, I love the characters, I love their friendship, the bond, the things they face together and how they come through it in the end and I just really hope others love it too. So I am really going to celebrate when this comes out, whether I throw a launch and it's just little old me. I'm doing it. So I have been sick this week. There's loads going about at the moment. There's COVID and flu and gastro, which is what I felt like. I had a bit of a sore stomach and felt a bit sick and that kind of set me back a few days. So, yeah, I mean, you don't really schedule for sickness, so when it hits, it's kind of a shock. I mean, we are 1 December, it's the first of summer, but we've had some really hot days so far, so it just kind of feels really strange to have these illnesses floating around, which you almost think of them at Wintertime, really. So, yeah, there's been a lot of that. I know so many people that have been ill, and if you're one of those people, I hope you recover well and get to feel better before your Christmas. When COVID first hit a few years back, I think that went through us as well. And we had to spend Christmas Day by ourselves as a family because we obviously had COVID, so that was kind of hard. But it's different times now. But it does make you think, as a creative in business, you're self employed, you need to allow for this time of being sick. You can't really schedule for it, but there's no sick pay when you do fall sick. So even having savings to help you get through just in case of an emergency, because there's no one to do the work for you or hit your current deadlines. So factoring this into budgets and savings, I think, in 2024 is probably quite a smart thing to do if this is where you're at in your author adventure year. I rarely get sick, to be honest. And the good thing about this job, I can usually power it through. Because you work from home, you can work wherever we're lucky. We can just lie in our beds and still keep creating. Although it depends what's wrong with you. It can be harder to focus. And if you're exhausted as well, which is what I felt this week. And I just had to listen to my body and realize this is all I've got today. This is all I can do. It doesn't feel enough, but that's all I can do. It's all I can manage. And you've got to be okay with that and just rest and get over it, because, yeah, I've definitely been attuned to how unfocused I've been on certain things, and I've just packed up and left it for the day. I'm not sure whether sitting powering on is the right thing. It doesn't feel right for me, so I haven't achieved what I wanted to achieve, but I've been kind to myself, I've not been well. And I've got to keep saying that because I used to sometimes sit and think, what's wrong? Blah, blah. Because, as I said, it's very rare that I do get sick and it's almost a surprise, like, oh, you're actually you're not well. That's what was wrong. It wasn't just that you were feeling like, oh, I can't be bothered or something. So I did attend the squibby. The Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators. I'm the newsletter editor and socials coordinator for my local chapter, which is squibby Australia West, have been a member for about seven years now. Started out in the children's fiction genre and they had their Xmas party last Sunday. And they also have an event beforehand, which used to be called the Backyard Book Fair, but it's now called the Young Readers Day Out and it's held at the State Library. And it's a chance for this community WA authors and children's creators to share their work with parents and kids and sell some more books just as gifts before Christmas time, which is where I usually get my gifts. Shout out to Christine Nita Brown and her junior fiction book mavie and Beth's double act. Where's my whistle? It's a first in series and it's a gorgeous, beautiful, bright book. And I wanted to get that for my daughter so she's got that coming to her for Christmas as well as Sharon Giltrow and Samara Rubin and the utility rebuilt another first in series Junior Fiction. And my daughter absolutely adores this book, so I've got this one as well for under the stock in her stocking and going quite indie this year as well. I'm going to be getting Lorraine Horsley's lunchbox book as well, and just a chance for to do the Christmas shopping. And so the presenters, it was so nice because there's obviously different age groups and it was good to see how they present to a crowd. Everybody's got a different style, but ultimately interactive interaction with young kids is best. Entertaining them by asking questions, getting them involved in your presentation, drawing it back to your book. You've got illustrators who can draw and stuff, but us writers have to be a bit more I'm not saying a bit more creative, but we have to think of how else we could be interactive other than drawing. But it was really nice to catch up with everybody at the Christmas tour. Haven't seen a lot of people this year, but always a nice spot in town beside Matilda Bay, beside the river and the Swan River. And it was just really nice to see everyone again. So that's about the only event I'm attending this year that's it nice. So I do want to get myself out to a lot more events next year and I definitely want to I'm going to be putting myself out there to conduct a few more speaking workshops as well. It's just another to do list thing as well. So, 1 December. What does December mean to you as a writer? As an author, as a creative? Does it mean you finish for the year? This is your holiday time for parents. We've got a couple of weeks left and then the kids are there all the time, which is quite hard to do anything. Does it mean you're starting to think about next year and what's ahead? What does December mean to you? For me, December is always a time that is very busy. Personally, I've got kids birthdays, Christmas, end of school. We've got kids graduating from primary school this year. There's loads of stuff that's generally happening. So by rights, I should be slowing down. In my author business, I say this all the time, and obviously for the last five years, I just haven't been able to get a handle on myself. I'm a lot better. I'm definitely getting a lot better. My organizations and my scheduling is what is getting me better. Instead of so December, for me, it's not starting to think about the next year, probably October. November is starting to think about 2024 and putting in for things and things like that. And then December should be wrapping up and celebrating and stuff like that. However, as you can tell, I am getting the edits out for my women's fiction and there's just a million other things that I wanted to get done by the end of the year, and I will get them done to do with the podcast and other stuff. And I'm not taking a break. I'm not slowing down. I'd say I'm not slowing down, but obviously with the kids, they do slow me down. Gearing up for a very busy 2024. I really want to ramp it up.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: You hello. My name is Nicole Webb, and I'm the owner of Nicole Webb Book Publicity. I'm originally a journalist and a news reader with over 30 years experience in the media. My memoir, China Blonde was published in 2020, and I'm now working on a novel set in Singapore. In the past two years, I've completed more than 20 successful author book publicity campaigns. Promoting your book can feel like a daunting task. So if you want help planning your book publicity path, I'd love to help you. If you need a compelling media release and someone to pitch you and your book to the media, or perhaps you want some media training to ensure you're confident when discussing your book, then let's talk. From consultations through to full marketing campaigns, I design tailored strategies to suit your needs and to target your book to its specific audience. You can check out my website, www.nicolwebonline.com, for more details.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: You.
Did you still feel you had to do the marketing even though you were producing, as you said, the ten books in ten months? Would that not have worked as a good feeding the algorithm? You still had to do all the ads on top of that?
[00:11:02] Speaker C: Well, it depends what you want to achieve if you want to achieve. I mean, it depends what sort of writer you are. If you're a person who wants to write one or two books for your own satisfaction, if you want to make $100 a month out your books and be happy with that, or if you want to make 1000 or 10,000 a month or whatever. Because bearing in mind, I think the market for book sales online is so large that there's effectively no limit to what you can achieve. At the height of my advertising and my book production, I was selling about 800 books per month on advertising alone, which I would not have had otherwise. And that 800 books will affect my ranking, which means I will get page throughs. I will get organic sales. Yes, I believe that depends. If you want to make a serious income out of it, you will have.
[00:11:51] Speaker D: To advertise ink by the barrel. The origin of that. There's an old expression, you never quarrel with a man who buys his ink by the barrel. And what that means is don't argue with the press. But the spin that I'm taking is buy your ink by the barrel. Learn to be a prolific writer. I really believe that you get to the quality through the quantity. That doesn't mean you have to publish everything. So many writers tell me they have five terrible drafts of something in their drawer, and that's fine, that's something you kind of get through. But the book itself is based on all that, and it's broken up into three parts time, voice, and process. So you defend your time, you find your voice, and you develop your process. And that's kind of the almost, like, surefire route. And even within that, some ideas in the book may contradict each other because there's so much advice in there, and not everyone going to write the same. And honestly, if you write your entire life, you're probably not going to write the same five years from now as you do now. So I really like to think a lot about writing up until you're 100 years old or more, and how you can do it and think about it that way.
[00:12:52] Speaker E: I'm sure a lot of people think that you write a book, you get it published, and it's in every single bookshop. But there's a bookseller that goes around and bookshops either yay or nay it, and it may not be on shelves. And again, that lack of control there where I'm just like, well, someone else is doing this and they're doing the best that they can. I can't force it into a bookshop that unknown. Makes me a bit uncomfortable because I don't know what to expect. That's probably the worst part. But as you can see, it's all very much surrounding anxiety. The best part is, honestly, just holding a book in my hand that has my name on it. It is such a surreal feeling, and I really don't think it will ever get old. It's just, oh, I have wanted this since I was a kid. Like, I really wanted to be published when I was twelve and I actually became a journalist because everyone was like an author is not actually a career. You aspire as a full time. So they're like, find something else that you can do with writing. And that was journalism. And so now to have a book that has my name on it, that I know how much work has gone into it, that's amazing. And I think that's what I have to keep reminding myself of as reviews come out, as I figure out which bookshops want it, at the end of the day, the book's done and I achieve that and that's just what I need to be happy with.
[00:14:03] Speaker F: I think when it settles down and you tell yourself therefore it's fine and it's settled down, you've dealt with it, you can resume normal programming. Obviously that's where the repetitive strain and wear is coming in. And I am more fortunate than most people in some regards because my husband is actually he's a clinical psychologist, but he works in chronic pain management. And he said to me when I was first saying, my wrists, it's really painful. He said, don't ignore this. Don't be stupid about it. He said, I see this all the time. It starts out as nothing and people ignore it because it's nothing. And they come to me when they're in a crisis. Please don't be foolish. And of course I was foolish, as.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: Probably most of us would be though. And especially if you're doing something that is your work and you're involved in it and it's just like you said, you can feel invincible.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: You've got things that you're trying to.
[00:14:57] Speaker F: Get done and so you assume, you keep saying, I'll just get this finished, I'll meet this deadline, I'll get this work done and then I'll deal with that. But there's always one more thing. There's always one more thing. And your body, it's not going to wait, is women are warriors and we lead with a strength which is unexplained. Now, we have to tap within that inner light or spark which is universally present within all of us. No one has a bright or a weaker inner light or spark. And that's the area of pure potential which we need to tap in. And for this we have to become self aware. The way we can do it is self reflection, engaging with a dialogue with oneself. And the most important thing which I have learned from my life experiences is that how we perceive ourselves is directly correlated to the quality of our lives. Be it the relations we have, be it the work which we do, or the creative facets which we explore. We all talk about self esteem, self worth, self love. But I think the most fundamental ingredient is self respect. High self respect is not ego. Or I'm the best. Respect means I understand myself, I know who I am and I like who I am. It's the root of self love, self care, confidence and self belief.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: For me, I'm very much about I'm a mapper. And I think metaphor is a way of mapping things.
It's really about linking ideas and linking things and what they mean to us and it's bringing emotion into our descriptions. So I would say if you are using metaphor, be really creative and playful with it and just put all your ideas down on paper and see where these connections are and just really explore. I think if we use metaphor more, the writing really does become more personal.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Limiting beliefs are thoughts and opinions that we believe to be the absolute truth.
They are these subconscious thoughts that creep in and tell us that this is ultimately the truth. And when we believe our limiting beliefs, we are ultimately then, like placing limitations on our capabilities. And so limiting beliefs or subconscious fears can come to us where we believe them to be the absolute truth through experiences that we've had in life, trauma that we've had in life, things that we've also witnessed that's happened to other people or even something that's happened through generationally throughout us as well. And when those things seem to happen, that's where we sometimes don't realize it. It's come through our subconscious that these limiting beliefs come up. And with that, we ultimately make our decisions sometimes based around our limiting beliefs and again, can limit our capabilities. And so as an author, the main type of limiting beliefs that sometimes can come up is like I'm not an author, no one's going to read my work if I publish it. No one's going to buy my book, who's going to buy my book? Or I'm not good with grammar writing.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: For these teenagers and I really care about this age group and I want to present again, not in a didactic way, but I want to present my values, really. And one of those is that life is good and to trust yourself and be brave. And so of all my novels, it doesn't matter what they're about. I think these ideas are at the heart of it.
[00:18:20] Speaker E: I think that's a really strong message.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: Especially for that age group and just all of us, really.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: I need to hear it every day.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. Well, it sounds like obviously you write to discover, so sort of a discovery writer and you write the ideas, I guess, that you're blessed with whatever sort of sparks your interest. Like heard that from one song. You were washing the dishes, I think. Did you get the idea for another book washing the dishes as well? I feel like there was something came.
Washing the dishes is a good place for you. Wow. Yeah.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: I don't have a dishwasher now, which is a problem for me. I'm going to get writer's block.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: All you'll have to go back to that. Yeah, what it sounds like to me with the small press is that it might suit hybrid authors because they get to have that working relationship a bit more a bit more of the control, I suppose, rather than saying going with a larger organization.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: Yep, you're right. Jo as a daisy blue author, being able to work with an experienced writer, illustrator and publisher has been really valuable. Our being in the same state and kidlip community as Leanne has been good. I know about her books, I know about her passion for nature, so that has been good. And just having the opportunities to collaborate has been fabulous. We've been able to have the catch ups and I've been able to see the illustrations, bring the stories to life and then the buzz of bringing those ideas together, which you possibly wouldn't get if you're on different sides of the country. And when we got to the part where we were enhancing the stories with handwritten text and you were having to think on your feet together, that was really great. So yes, it's helped me to develop as a writer, and particularly a picture book writer, and also to understand the publishing process. It's definitely being prepared to talk about yourself, but not going into it thinking you have to sell yourself. It's a really fine line and honestly, just being able to read the room a little bit. Often I'll have coffees with someone and I can tell that they don't want to be there, but they're just doing a favor from someone else. And so I'll just spend the whole coffee talking about their dog because that's what they want to talk about and that's the kind of fun thing to do. And then proper pitching is a whole different kettle of fish where you will literally walk into a room and someone will be like, right, what do you got for me? And you're just like you're just into it. Like there is no small talk, you're just straight into it kind of thing. And again, that's a whole weird kind of like can't we talk about the weather first?
[00:20:54] Speaker A: Let's break the ice.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Seriously? Seriously.
[00:20:58] Speaker G: I'm a loud cartwheeling, juggling, clown kind of style person, but not everybody has to be that. It's like kids want all kinds of books, they want all kinds of presenters. And so I spend a lot of energy and time sort of talking to people about how they find the them inside and bring that. And then you have this brand that goes across your books and your presentations and you as an author and how that all works together. And also, like Kathy said, the income stream, it's not just another income stream. It's not like you've got presenting and book sales and they're two separate. When you present to kids, when you do school visits and festivals and book launches, all that feeds back into your book sales. And so it ends up being this kind of ecosystem of making money, selling books, building your platform building, your presence and all those things actually work together to actually create a career that can go on for more than one book.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: I've 100% had moments where I've thought about giving up. When you're constantly being rejected or you're not hearing from publishers with all these submissions, all sorts of things start to go through your head. You think, gosh, maybe that first book that I wrote was a fluke and maybe I'm not really good at writing or I'm never going to get another contract, I'm forever going to have one book. So I'm quite an emotional person and I often really struggle with the rejections, particularly if I think my book is a perfect fit for a publisher and I don't hear from them. Or sometimes I've got to that acquisition stage so it's almost there and then they've said no. So when I get those types of rejections, I often have a few days where I'm really low and I feel like I want to give up. Or there's times you'll look on Instagram and you see everyone else is getting contracts, isn't it?
[00:22:45] Speaker A: I know.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: Terrible for motivation. It might sound a little bit corny, but the thing that just keeps me going two things is hope and passion. So I love what I do, I love writing, I love crafting words into a story and I love the possibility that my words will one day be transformed into a picture book and enjoyed by kids and families. So whenever I'm in that low point and I think about giving up, I always think to myself, what if that next submission is a yes? What if the next story that I write is the one that a publisher has just been waiting for? It's got to be that passion for the writing and just that hope of finding a publisher who loves my work. That's what keeps me going with coming up against those rejections. I think you've also got to celebrate the small wins along the way. If you do a pitch and they request your manuscript or you talk to a publisher and they love your work, but ultimately it might be a no, but just take those little wins, take those positive comments from a publisher and you've got to use those as wind in your sales.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: And I feel that the traditional route for me back then was a lot to do with approval. I felt like if I had approval of a traditional publishing house, then my work was worthy enough, I was worthy enough. But now grown in time and with experience, I'm more inclined to want a traditional deal because I have many ideas in many genres and I want to write them all. But being a one woman business at this point in time, I can do it all. Just not fast enough. But I want help. So if I can offload some of the publisher duties onto a trad publisher, as I mentioned before, I'm also curious as to what the process is like working with the Trad team. How different is it to independent publishing being received and also being received as an author this way? And it's also another stream of income to rely on. It's not just me and my books, it's me, them and my books. From the two and a half years of interviewing, constructing and outputting the hybrid author podcast episodes. This has all brought me to my other realization about what a hybrid author profile can be, and that's writing in more than one genre. So it's not just the publishing, it's the writing as well. Writing in more than one genre, not sticking to one category of writing. Episode 72 sasha Wosley she writes young adult fiction, middle grade fiction, adult contemporary and historical fiction. Episode 27, Sarah Epstein writes psychological thrillers and contemporary for young adults, as well as contemporary Ya. Episode 49, Stephen Herrick nonfiction, cycling, travel books for adults, and young adult fiction. Also writing in more than one format is a hybrid author. Episode 88 Catherine LaFroy screenwriter and children's middle grade novelist. Catherine writes screenplays and she writes books. So different formats is also a form of hybrid authorship, writing for more than one age group. So episode 56 diane Wolfer she writes young adult fiction, middle grade fiction, junior fiction, and picture books, still in the children's and Ya categories, but across age groups. This is also a hybrid author mixing writing styles. This one I'm super excited about, and it was a real eye opener for me, one I had never even thought of, but I'd like to dive more into this type of discussion. As I said, it's one I haven't played around with or even thought of, but it's definitely interesting. So episode 63 children's and Ya author Pip Harry on hybrid writing styles.
So there you have it, folks, an outstanding, almost merry Xmas mashup of some of the guests since June. We've got obviously the usual Merry Christmas mashup, which will be with the rest of the guests for the year. And what I love about the mashups is you just get little snippets of really awesome information from such a plethora of different authors in different genres. And I just love listening to them, going back and hearing those episodes, just some snippets from them as well. And you can obviously hear different presenters and different authors and different speakers if you didn't listen to that episode and you think, yeah, that person knows what they're talking about, or that I want to know more on that, but maybe it didn't appeal to you in the beginning. If you hear the mashup, then you can obviously go back and check out those authors and what they've got to say on their various topics. So love the mashups, love them. Next time on the Hybrid Author podcast, I'm chatting mental health and writers with Cynthia Marie Hoffman. She's the author of Exploding Head, a Memoir. In prose poems about her lifelong journey with obsessive compulsive disorder. OCD. So more of a bit of a serious topic next week, but it's such an amazing conversation with Cynthia, and I can't wait to share it with you all. I wish you well in your author adventure this next week. That's it from me. Bye for now. That's the end for now, authors. I hope you are further forward in your author adventure after listening, and I hope you'll listen next time, remember to head on over to the Hybrid Author website at WW hybridauthor.com. Au to get your free author pass. It's bye for now.
