Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello authors.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: I'm Joanne Morrell, children's and young adult.
[00:00:03] Speaker C: Fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for Authors. Thanks for joining me for the Hybrid Author Podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author both independently and traditionally publishing your books.
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[00:00:24] Speaker B: Author website to discover your writing process.
[00:00:26] Speaker C: Get tips on how to publish productively.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: And get comfortable promoting your books at www.
Let's crack on with the episode.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Hello authors. I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to the podcast in Today's interview is writing Pulse Pounding thrillers with Michael Windross and we chat the inspiration for his debut thriller, what goes around technical aspects to keep readers turning the page, science surprises, challenges and wins publishing his novel, Michael's advice to aspiring authors looking to stand out in a crowded market and much more so on my author adventure this week. I'm just back from a mini break. I went away with friends and the children for the last weekend of the school holidays and yeah, we didn't go away for long enough but it was really nice just to get away an hour away from where we lived and just a little sort of Airbnb resort thing that had a pool and a spa and some trampolines and a beach close by and it was just nice weather, still a bit cold but really, really nice just to relax and yeah, take that time. So enjoyed that and gearing up for a week of speaking gigs and podcast release. By the time this goes out I will be conducting Roblox in Writing at South Perth Library and you attended.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: Thank you very much.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: And also discovered the power of podcasting at Morley Library this Saturday 10 o' clock if you're around then. So really just prepped for these speaking events, but mainly the podcast one remains the same but Roblox and writing, I do have a little bit more of tweaking that talk because lots more roadblocks has arisen since I first started conducting that workshop last year in terms of what's been blocking me as well. And if you listen to the podcast those last couple of months, burnout is definitely a thing and has definitely stopped me from writing being a sort of roadblock. Exciting times ahead. We are at 197 episodes. We have another episode to release with guest Belle Vidal this week and then.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: We will be having a mashup of.
[00:02:46] Speaker C: All the guests for the rest of this year. Since June I think the mid year mashup and then I will be doing a special solo episode for 200 episodes and I will be leaving the podcast there till the end of the year and taking a big break. Apart from that, yeah, just a very week Orientated Things in the Writing World.
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Thorn Creative, where beautiful websites for authors are brought to life.
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[00:04:36] Speaker A: Foreign is a marketing consultant and now a debut author with his thriller what Goes Around.
[00:04:49] Speaker C: It was published by Bloomsbury in the.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: Uk, USA and Australia and foreign translation rights were sold in Japanese, Hungarian and Italian.
It is available in hardcover, audiobook and ebook and the paperback edition launches this month. Fantastic. Welcome to the Hybrid Author Podcast. Michael, thank you.
[00:05:10] Speaker D: So happy to be here.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: We're absolutely thrilled to have you. Thanks for joining us and we'll just jump straight in. Can you tell us how you came to be a writer?
[00:05:20] Speaker D: It actually started the second I was born.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Oh, that was quick.
[00:05:26] Speaker D: I was put on my mother's chest, she looked deeply into my eyes and she said, or so I'm told, oh, how nice to see you again.
And it was the, yeah, it was the again part that always intrigued me and I always wanted to do something with it and I later wanted to write something that involved that.
And my mother was also an editor back in the day. She worked for New York City publishing firms and I'd also learned something from her because I distinctly remember seeing her on a when I was young, seeing her on a Saturday morning sitting cross legged on the bed, manuscript pages strewn about her red pencil in hand, marking up all of these manuscript pages with her editorial comments.
So when I finally wrote my book what goes around and got my editor's comments.
You know, they weren't in a red pen or pencil, but the comments in the margins of the word document were just as, how shall I say it, instructive. So I got those comments, but at least I was prepared for editors comments. I knew what was involved in that whole process.
And you know, I didn't write that book of mine for a while. You know, I went to a business school, I studied marketing and it was actually in when I was going for my master's of business administration, my MBA at nyu, New York University.
That's where I kind of married my new love of marketing with my always love of books. And I actually married them in terms of. I wrote my MBA thesis on publish on marketing in the publishing industry.
And it was interesting because the industry's trade journal called Publishers Weekly got wind of it and they actually excerpted my thesis in three of their editions.
[00:07:29] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:07:29] Speaker D: And they paid me for it. So I got paid for my thesis and that was the first time I got paid for writing.
And I like that. Yeah, I like that. And the other thing I liked about that was, you know, having to write this. I had to interview a lot of publishing executives.
And I remember one of the executives I interviewed once was the then editor in chief of Simon and Schuster.
And I remember I was waiting, the time of our appointment had come and it was late. And then finally the door to his office opens up and he waves me in and he says, come on here, I want you to meet someone.
And who's standing there but Truman Capote of In Cold Blood. Talk about thrillers.
The original master thriller.
[00:08:19] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:08:20] Speaker D: Well, it was pretty amazing. But from there I went into a marketing career. I was doing global strategic marketing and. And then, you know, to fully answer your question, how I finally got to write my book was it was really the pandemic where you know, at that point in the pandemic you could not, you couldn't do anything. You certainly couldn't go to the movies, restaurants, where we are we in Florida. We couldn't even go to the beach or play tennis.
So I had no more excuses. So I finally sat down and wrote the book I always wanted to write. So at least for me, the pandemic resulted in something pretty good.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. I know you guys got hit really, really hard. I know it was a global pandemic, but geez, it was full on over there. And yeah, there's a few stories like that about the books coming out and it's. I Guess it's kind of bittersweet because.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: It'S a triumph for you.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: But it's, you know, of that time was quite awful. Feels so kind of quite a long time ago now it doesn't it.
[00:09:26] Speaker D: Publishing process is a long process, but yeah, absolutely.
[00:09:31] Speaker A: And so the thriller genre is that, you know, that's all. You've always been a fan of that.
[00:09:37] Speaker D: I have because actually my stepfather was a literary agent and a lot of his clients were mystery and thriller writers. So you know, growing up around that and getting all of these books for free, got to to read a lot of his clients books and he had some good clients. There was the one that got away, they had for a while which was Dean Koons.
Great. And then he had a lot, he had a lot of best selling authors though. Joseph Finder, who's still out there writing, Robert Ludlam, who a lot of people know from the Matt Damon, Bourne Identity movies. He, he was a great guy and every book he wrote was a bestseller thriller category. And actually I got to stay at his winter home once. He had a place in the Caribbean, St Thomas and I got to stay there for a few days. And yeah, he was a very generous guy, very, very nice guy.
And I remember one morning waking up early and tiptoeing up into the living room and he was sitting there on his couch with a yellow legal pad in hand and a number two pencil and there he was writing away.
And that's how he wrote his 450 page novels. By hand. I mean I couldn't do that. I mean I love Ludlum's prose and plotting, but writing by hand? No, thank God. When it came time to write mine I had a PC.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: I think there's something freeing about writing, you know, by hand. But yeah, I can't actually read my writing so when I write it down it must be something about these legal pads because I think Roald Dahl was the same setup. He was the yellow legal pad in the. Or maybe it was just back in the day, I don't know.
[00:11:26] Speaker D: Maybe it's the color yellow. Maybe that's inspiring.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: I don't know, maybe we'll have to try it. Well, we're here to talk about your book, your debut thriller, what Goes around. And it is being described as pulse pounding and gritty. So, you know, can you tell us what inspired the premise of the story? And did you, you've said you're a lover of the, you know, the thriller genre. You always were set out to write in it.
[00:11:49] Speaker D: Well, you know, I The premise, which actually the major twist ending goes back to the story I told about what my mother said I was when I was born. But you know, the story itself, which is at some mysterious shootings going on in a small town. And two detectors are paired together and they hate each other. One is a male who's more like a Jack Reacher type character, very physical, big, and the other is a brainy and beautiful woman. They've got to pursue, figure out what's going on before they, you know who the killer is before they kill each other. But during this, during this journey, you know, they meet up with these secret groups of incels and boogaloo boys. And what really inspired the specific story there was, you know, what was going on in America at the time with these crazy groups coming up. And there was this rally, Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia where anti rally protester got killed.
And I found this all very disturbing. So I, I did want my novel to be topical and I needed to research and pursue how these things were coming about and how people got involved. So I did do a lot of research and my story doesn't, does involve a naive boy as well in the mix that gets caught up in it. So I'm trying to show what factors can go into all of this. I mean the bad guys get, get theirs in the end for sure, but so that kind of inspired the story to be, to understand it as well as be topical. And a lot of the reviewers have talked about, you know, this is not only this page turning thriller but you know, it deals with tough issues of today. So I'm happy it's getting those kind of reviews that are also recognizing that it's kind of a thriller plus.
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it's amazing. It sounds like it's got some really powerful messages and quite a lot in there, which is incredible. Are you telling it from like the male and the female's perspective? How does the story flow?
[00:13:53] Speaker D: Yeah, I use various perspectives in the book and what I do is I try and tell, you know, the perspective is going to be the person that's most involved by the action.
So there is a shooter involved in this too that's trying to find who the shooter is.
So you know, when it's involving him looking to do his business, that's from his perspective. And then it could be from our male detective's perspective or our female. It depends on who's most impacted by the action going on. And I think that brings the reader close to each scene, each situation.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you know, maybe guessing what's going on and things like that? Oh, gosh. Well, thrillers, you know, they are pacing, suspense, they rely heavily on those types of themes. And did you do any kind of courses with to plot out thrillers or anything like that or is there any techniques or writing habits that you've incorporated as a debut author?
[00:14:53] Speaker D: Yes, I mean, I wanted this book to be a real page turner because that's what I like to read.
So what I do when I write is I write firstly in short chapters. I think readers like to have short chapters because they feel like the story's progressing, they're progressing in it. So that's key for me. And I also like to end each chapter basically a cliffhanger. It could be a physical cliffhanger or it could be a psychological one or an emotional one, but I like to end it on some sort of cliffhanger. And then the next chapter, I like to start with a very intriguing first sentence which also keeps the reader wanting to go. And I also will.
I usually have a main plot line and then a subplot and then also I'll vary those.
So the first chapter could end on its cliffhanger and then you go into the story that relates to the second plot so you're not resolving that cliffhanger right away. And then that chapter will have a cliffhangers pretty much. There are some emotional breaks, of course, so the reader gets to catch their breath occasionally. But overall that is really what my intent was. And I got a, you know, I was very, very lucky. I got a lot of excellent quotes from best selling authors who were, were so generous in reading my book.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Oh, that's great.
[00:16:12] Speaker D: But the one I like best is the one that's on the COVID of what Goes around, which is from J.D. barker, who was actually the number one bestselling author a couple of weeks ago with his new book. And he said, relentless and gritty, Wendroff expertly weaves a narrative that begs just one more page.
I love that because that was my goal. I was the readers who want to keep going and keep them up all night long.
So that was good. And terms of how I write, I basically do the ideation, the plotting, then research and then writing.
So for the first part of that. So first coming up with what are the ideas you want to have in the book, what's the general storyline? And then for me, I mean, I go into pretty detailed plotting and there are two types of writers. There are plotters and then there are what's called pantsers and pantsers literally Right by the seat of their pants. They sit down on their PC, start typing away, writing away, and they have no idea where the story is going.
And I applaud them. Bestsellers come out of that style, but that's not me. No, I need to plot. I need to know what's going to happen, what certainly what the major end twist is going to be, but where the other twists are going to be along the way, where the red herrings are going to be. I need to know all of that. And it's not like that won't evolve. There was one time where I was writing it about a character, and the plot called for this character to be killed.
And it was very hard, and I just couldn't do it.
I had to change the plot.
And then there was this other time, there was this other character that I also really love this character. And again, the plot calls it this character to be killed.
And this time I couldn't get out of it. I had to do it. Poor guy. And after I did that, I'm like, walking around the house for a week, looking depressed, and my wife's like, what's wrong with you? That character wasn't real. But to the authors, these characters are real.
And then. So after plotting, then I'll do the research. And when I wrote this one, there was a lot of Googling. These days, there's ChatGPT.
You have to be careful. But it's a lot more efficient in terms of research I found while I'm researching my second book.
But the best method of research, I believe, is actually talking to the people who are involved in the kind of professions that are in your book. So I'm lucky in my community. And, you know, I've met a lot of people, and I was able to talk to a FBI agent. I was able to talk to police officers and the chief of police, and I contacted my local police department and I said, I need to talk to a female detective. She's a key character in my book. I got to get this right. And they set me up. They had a female detective, and I met with her. Courtney's act. She was great. And she told me a lot of incidents and anecdotes beyond procedural stuff that made it into the book. She was very happy when she read them. But it's really key to. To research the type of people that are going to be in your book to talk to them, you know, one on one.
Now, I don't think I spoke to any serial killers.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: Oh, gosh. And. And some of them are probably forthcoming, I would imagine. But geez, yeah, take some guts, I guess.
[00:19:43] Speaker D: Yeah.
So then after that, of course, comes the writing. And the writing process for me is sit down in my desk early morning and I'll start typing away just to get the story out. I don't. Certainly don't worry about spelling or grammar, but I don't really worry about anything.
I just get it out, get the story out.
And then the process would be. The next morning I will go back and I will look at what I wrote the previous day and then try to make it into real writing. Make sure every word fits with the other words in the sentences. Make sure everybody sentence fits with the others in the paragraph, add in the metaphors, add in the analogies.
And once I'm done with that, then after that, I'll just spew out the next part of the story and the next day review that. So it's a continuous cycle of story out, edited story out, edit it.
And I'll do that every day until finally I get to write my favorite two words.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: No, that's fantastic. I concur that. I used to work that way as well, but I found it was actually a block for me having to write and then.
And then go back and go over it the next day because I guess for myself, I was kind of time poor. And then I would spend a lot of that day rereading and going over and it's part of the editing process, I guess. But these days I just feel like I need to get a first draft out without going through any of it and then going back and doing it sort of draft by draft, I suppose.
[00:21:22] Speaker D: Definitely. You know, writers do it in all different ways, that's for sure. It's just whatever feels best for you as a writer.
[00:21:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's.
[00:21:29] Speaker D: I like getting into. I like when I review what I wrote the day before. It gets me back into the flow of the story. So that's why that, you know, worked for me.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's it. And I sort of started out as a. Pants are kind of seeing where things would take me. And my process has changed as my genre has changed to plotting, which I find is more effective and faster because you're not sort of locked into it, because as you go, things might arise. But I feel like it's a bit quicker when you do have a bit of a guide and a roadmap map, isn't it, to know which way you're going rather than. Oh, I think so, yeah, that's it. Well, you mentioned there's Twists and red herrings. Were there any surprises, challenges or wins you encountered on publishing? What goes around? How did that shape your view of the publishing process? As a debut author, how has your publishing process been? Bloomsbury are massive. So congrats.
[00:22:21] Speaker D: You know, I think the thing I found most surprising is that being an author today is only about 50% writing, and the other 50% is marketing your book, pushing your book. It's really, I mean, because traditional publishers these days, they don't, you know, unless you're Stephen King or Arling Goldman, they don't do much for you. So it's really up to the individual authors. It's important for authors to get on podcasts. It's important to reach out to bloggers. It's important to reach out to your local media. For example, I was profiled in our local newspaper last month and it was great. They came in, took a lot of pictures and showed my book and all that. And next month our local magazine is putting me on the COVID and the same thing, you know, about my book. And so you got to do a lot of social media.
I think I've had a little bit of a leg up on a lot of other authors. A lot of authors tend to be introverted, and I've got a background in marketing.
So, you know, for example, if I would go to bookstore signings with other local authors that are there at tables or book fairs where there's a lot of authors at tables with their books, and I'd watch these other authors and they're very polite and they're sitting behind the table waiting for someone to come up to talk to them.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: And.
[00:23:44] Speaker D: But I think because of my background, I'm standing up in front of the table and bringing these people in.
So I always, I always sell out. So, you know, I think it takes an effort, but I think everyone with some practice can get there. But you got to really be ready with social media and all of that. That was the most surprising thing. But try and make early contacts. I mean, I was lucky in one community. Now, far from here, I had 150 people show up, up to a book talk. So that's been the biggest surprise of how much the author himself or herself really has to do to get the book moving.
[00:24:21] Speaker A: Yeah, and I suppose as well, it's, you know, there's so many different avenues to marketing that you would know if you feel comfortable or you don't, and you can take it slow and then try what makes you feel comfortable before putting yourself out there. But, yeah, it's A lot about that now and especially the just to get seen. Even putting yourself out there is quite difficult as well, isn't it?
[00:24:44] Speaker D: For sure. Yeah.
[00:24:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:46] Speaker D: That's why I say 50 is the right thing, 50 is the rest.
[00:24:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:50] Speaker D: Because it's a lot of effort. It's a lot of effort.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
So did you sit down with like your publisher and say, I'm a marketing consultant, these are the things that I can do sort of thing or did you collaborate with what types of marketing you would do or you've just done it all off your own back?
[00:25:04] Speaker D: Yeah, it's mostly been me. I tell them what I'm doing and they'll expand on my social media posts, they'll pick up on those and so forth. So they'll push out the audience a little bit more. But it's mostly they've been thrilled to hear everything I've been doing. Yeah. So since they get to benefit. But it's, it's. I mean I'll even write copy and stuff like that. And as I said, I did have an advertising marketing background, which helps me for sure. I mean back when I was doing a lot of that advertising agencies and selling other consumer products like shampoos, et cetera, stuff like that, the ad agency would come to me and, and they would show me these 30 second ads or 15 second ads and we'd always be commenting on the copy that's there in them and having them change things. And you learned, you learned at that point that, you know, every single word in your communication really counts. You got to be very careful, especially when you're dealing with 5 second ads, 10 second ads. And I take that to heart. And you know, I think the same thing applies to books. Even though my book has 90,000 words, I think I felt like every single word counted.
But I've been lucky with my background. But my publisher I think was just very typical of other publishers where they're happy to see what you can do and they're happy to expand on it. They're happy. When I told them of all these other authors I'd met that they gave me these quotes they could use.
So what I did love that the publisher did. It wasn't so much. Well, it was the marketing really too. You can count on that. It was first of all was the name of my book what Goes around because I had a different name for it was a perennial and the publisher said but for a thriller I think we could probably do better. And they came up with a bunch of different names and I saw What Goes around. And I love that because it completely fits with a key thematic thing in the book.
And, and it also, you know, people know the phrase, and I think they, they finish it in their mind. What goes around comes around.
So you've already made a connection with a potential reader right then and there. So I love that they came up with the name.
And I also love the, the packaging, the COVID art for it. And again, in my advertising background, I'm used to coming, people coming, agencies coming to me, and they'll show me, let's say, for a new product introduction, they'll show the different packaging approaches, and they give me half a dozen to comment on, choose from, and there was never anything perfect with that.
But then when my publisher, Bloomsbury, you know, when they came up with my cover, what Goes Around, I looked at that and I said, that's it. I love that cover.
And what I liked about it was, first of all, it looks like a thriller with the color scheme. And when you put it on a bookstore shelf, when you look at it on a shelf, it definitely pops off the shelf.
And it's a little hard to see here, but the graphic of it, it's kind of circular, which thematically too, so, so they did help a lot in, in terms of marketing, giving me a great cover and a great title.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's fantastic. And you mentioned before you're, you're heading to Thriller Fest this year. Is that, is that your first, is that going to be your first appearance or.
[00:28:30] Speaker D: I am.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: As part of your marketing.
[00:28:34] Speaker D: I, I, I've been there a couple of times this year. I'm going to be on the debut author's breakfast.
[00:28:42] Speaker C: Be nice.
[00:28:43] Speaker D: There's a lot of people that go to Thriller Fest, but I initially started going there really to learn. And I would advise authors who are out there to, you know, find places where you could really practice your craft, learn your craft, because there is a craft around writing. I mean, there's certain things when you submit your novel to literary agents or publishers that they look at in terms of how you write, what your craft is like, and there's definitely things to learn about that. And I'm going to Thrillerfest, which is for thriller writers, and there are all sorts of other conventions. I think every category must have one. And you go there and there's seminars on different aspects of writing where you could really learn. And I found that to be very helpful. I've gone to a local one in Florida, too. They do the same thing. There's, you know, time to mix and meet other authors, but also a lot of time in getting ideas and learning your craft. And if you don't go to conventions, there's other ways to do it, too. For example, I took online courses on BBC Maestro. I took a course from Lee Child on writing. I took a course from Harlan Coban on writing. They don't always agree with each other, but that's perfectly fine, too. But you learn a lot. And, you know, I think that doing that. If you can get into a writers group for your initial writing to get feedback, feedback is key.
A lot of people will show their draft to family just fine. Other people do have writing groups to get feedback, which is good.
There's also a lot of writers will use what's called beta readers. And beta readers are people who read in your category. They could be friends. And actually, I sent my book to four beta readers that I knew in the category, and they gave me really good feedback. I mean, some give you a lot of encouragement, which is great. And others have ideas, and I incorporated one of their ideas into the novel that really worked very well.
So it's important.
You know, the other thing I would say for writers is be prepared for editing, because when you type the end, my favorite two words, it's actually not the end. It's really just the beginning. And, you know, besides the editing you'll do yourself along the way, and the editing based on the feedback from family or writers groups or beta groups, if you actually get a contract in traditional publishing, oh, my God, there's a lot that goes on there. And I learned there's so many different types of editors. There's, you know, first there's the editor that buys your book, which is more of a strategic editor almost. They'll deal in broad issues, like, maybe your book needs a prologue, or maybe there's too much of this happening at the end and you need to seed it earlier and then after that, so you rewrite based on that. And then you have more of a copy editor, which is looking at every sentence in there, making sure that it's as good as it can be.
And then you've got a proofreading editor, but doesn't just proof for spelling things. But, you know, we'll look at stuff like, are your dates consistent? Or did you say she has green eyes in chapter two and brown eyes in chapter four?
Stuff like that.
So with each of these different editors, you're. I'm rereading the book again, and then I'm making those edits, and I thought I was done.
And Then my publisher comes to me and says, michael, the typeface has just been set. You need to go make sure nothing fell out.
Well, during that process, I can't tell you how many times I read my book.
It's a good thing. I like it.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. Yeah, I think it's. It's what people say, when is a book ready? It's like probably when you're sick of.
When you can't look at it anymore.
[00:32:50] Speaker D: A writer can always find something to change. I mean, I can go my book now and read the third sentence. I'll say, oh, I could do that better.
[00:32:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it.
[00:32:58] Speaker D: You do need. You do need, finally a pencils down moment.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't think it's ever done. You could probably go on and change it and change it forever, can't you? So, yeah. Oh, gosh. Well, that's all fantastic advice, Michael. Thank you very much. Do you have any further advice for anyone who.
Obviously you said about writing in the thriller genre, but maybe looking to stand out? It's quite a competitive market.
[00:33:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:22] Speaker A: Do you think sticking with what works in thrillers or maybe trying to mix things up a bit?
[00:33:27] Speaker D: I would. The only other thing I would say is never give up. You know, it may take some time. Took me a number of years, but never give up.
And I'd also say write every day. Or maybe you could take Christmas or New Year's off. But for me, one time I took off two weeks while I was on vacation and it was terrible, terrible. It just interrupted the whole flow. It's much easier if you can, Even if it's five or 10 minutes, try and write every day. Just keep in it and keep going. You'll be able to do it. Yeah, no, that's maybe also in terms of all of the work that writers have to do on the other 50%, the marketing, start developing your social media.
You start that now. Start that whole effort now. So. Because that's going to be important later. So little by little and, and on the social media part, it's. I know it's going to be tough for a lot of authors who are introverts, but the more you do that stuff, the easier it becomes. So just go for it and you'll do it.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing. Good, good advice there. Thank you so much. And we're all dying to know our listeners. Where can they find you, your books and everything, in stores and online?
[00:34:37] Speaker D: Absolutely. Yeah. And it's in bookstores and online at Amazon and all the other online retailers out there.
[00:34:44] Speaker A: Fantastic. Well, honestly, thank you so much, Michael, for sharing all you have. It's amazing. The book's amazing. Thank you again.
[00:34:52] Speaker D: Thank you. This has been fun.
[00:35:00] Speaker C: So there you have it folks. The marvelous Michael Windross cannot recommend Michael's book Enough what Goes Around. Go and grab it now. Next time on the Hybrid Author Podcast we have Belvedal on giving stories many lives writing bipolar type 2 into fiction as we are all aware, it's Mental Health Month. Bel Vidal is the pen name of an Australian Bolivian writer based in Sydney. Her fiction, non fiction and poetry have been published in English and Spanish under her pen name, her real name, and other pseudonyms. Soon after arriving in Sydney, she received an Australia Council Now Creative Australia grant to publish a bilingual collection of poems and stories, Rainbow of Dreams. An earlier draft of her novel, Exuberance was shortlisted for the Varuna HarperCollins Award for Manuscript Development and awarded the Varuna Residential Masterclass. It was independently published in 2023, followed by her story collection, Tales of suburban castaways in 2024. Belle holds a BA in Communications major in Creative Writing, a Master's in Writing for the Media. She works in the not for profit sector as a communications and media professional and is also a mental health advocate, book lover, bushwalking, enthusiastic traveler, blogger, and firm believer. It's never late to start anything new, which we all share that vision on the Hybrid Author Podcast. So I wish you well on your author adventure this week. And that's it for me. Bye for now.
