Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This episode is brought to you by Atmosphere Press, a hybrid publisher helping authors publish books their readers will love. As this is the hybrid author podcast. I'm absolutely thrilled to have a hybrid publisher as a sponsor and atmosphere Press are a wonderful bunch of people made up of an international team of book professionals bringing books from raw manuscripts all the way through editorial proofreading, interior design, cover design, publication, global distribution and publicity. In true hybrid style, atmosphere Press authors keep all their book rights and are involved every step of the way. They have free book giveaways and free author publicity opportunities available right now, so head on over to atmospherepress.com links in the show notes. They are especially eager to publish new work from australian authors, so make sure to reach out to them for a manuscript review. And don't forget to mention the hybrid author podcast in your query or cover letter which will get you a special expedited review. Hello authors. I'm Joanne Morell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for authors. Thanks for joining me for the Hybrid Author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your books. You can get the show notes for each episode and sign up for your free author pass over at the hybrid author website to discover your writing process, get tips on how to publish productively, and get comfortable promoting your books at www.hybridauthor.com dot au let's crack on with the episode.
Hello authors. I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to the podcast in. Today's interview is with Noah Asher and we chat about Noah's experiences publishing through a one stop shop. Hybrid publisher do's and don'ts tips how to incorporate a big message via your book and use it in your marketing strategies to sell more books, Noah's book, and much more so on my author adventure this week, I've made it back from Rottnest. If you tuned into last week's episode, I did the introduction and outroduction on Rottnest island and did a little piece on what it was like there and also that it was winter weather and you know, the ferries had been cancelled so unfortunately we had to cut the retreat short and well, most people did. Some stayed on. A few days later we're supposed to come back on the Sunday night, but the ferries were cancelled. They also got cancelled on the Monday as well. So that's why I didn't stay on any longer, just in case it got cancelled on the Tuesday, and I have children, so I had to get back. So, yeah, it was kind of bittersweet leaving the retreat. I feel like the retreat took a lot from me, but I think actually it was. It's all the things that I have been trying to do and complete in the lead up to the retreat, and just was an awful lot. So this. It actually took me a couple of days to get back. When I got home to get over the retreat. I just really was running on low energy. And I think sometimes these things can take a lot out of you. You know, there was about between 40 and 50 people on that retreat. I knew most of them. So it was a case of lots of talking and socializing, and I didn't do any writing, actually, at all. I had planned to do that on the Sunday, and then obviously we came back on the Saturday. I did achieve. I did take my. I took my daughter's bike over, and I did actually do a cycle around the island on the Saturday, which was good. And I attended one or two panels, the publisher panels, which were always good, and fellow writers panels and things I don't tend to. I don't tend to go to the illustrator workshops I should, because they're always worth it, but I just don't. Yeah, I just. I just felt quite distracted, this retreat, and that was a shame. But I also have done a lot of reflection since I've come back and where I'm at now in my author adventure, and I'm going to share a bit more on this in the coming weeks. I've had to take stock about how I feel about my career, the things that I'm spending my time on, where I'm at, the energy I've got for this anymore, and just going forward, what do I want? Where do I want to put my creative energies? Because at the moment and just how I was feeling after that week, I'm kind of spent, and I can see that I have a lot on my plate at the moment, and not just professionally, but also personally, too. I've made a few decisions that I'm pleased about, and I will share those in the coming weeks. That has lightened my load and given me a sort of focus. I've kind of made a decision on the area that I want to focus on. There'll be more to come on that also, you know, probably with the retreat, there was, you have all that energy with socializing, but, you know, there was late nights, early mornings. I wasn't sleeping a whole lot, drinking lots of wine and. Yeah, just, you know, just running on caffeine and then it all just hits you when you get back. So, yeah, I also felt, you know, I learned a lot while I was at the retreat, but I also knew a lot as well. And I think that comes from the podcast, actually. You know, three years I've been doing the podcast now, and it's been about three years since this retreat has been. So I feel like from the people that I've had on the podcast, I've learned a lot in that time. Whereas when I started going to the rottness writing retreat, honestly, every year for about five years there, I've been a member of Squibbie for seven, probably longer, actually. The information was always so welcomed and things like that. But I just feel like because of this podcast and I interview someone weekly about industry stuff, I feel like I do know a fair bit. You never ever know enough, though, and you never know at all. I definitely am not sitting saying that at all, but I definitely felt different, this retreat, and more knowledgeable, I suppose, within the industry. So while I was getting this energy back after the retreat, I have a subscription to Masterclass, which regular listeners of the podcast might know. That's what I bought myself for Christmas. So Masterclass is like a subscription model, online learning, but you're learning in fields of business, film, television, writing, wellness, whatever you like. There's categories for everything, and they're really high profile people. So I watched one. It was about an hour long. It was about the amount of time for to watch a full length movie. And it was by a filmmaker called Ava. I'm gonna, I hope I don't say her name wrong, but Ava Duvernay, and she is a filmmaker from the States. And honestly, just if you've ever, I don't know if you've ever got this, but you watch something or you read something or you receive a message that just comes through and you just feel like, I'm supposed to hear this right now. This is the time for these words. And her words just launched through the screen at me and spoke to me and to the point where I actually stopped watching it and sat down and wrote down what she said. So it was on there, and it was called reframing your thinking. And she said, the only way to be able to combat those ideas of you can't do this, they're not interested in you, is to go out and do it. And she, so she was talking about that, you know, at the age, I think she said 32, you're not supposed to pick up a camera you've never gone to film school. You're like, all these things. Because she's been a publicist in the film industry for many years, but she'd never been a director. And she was just going on about all the negative things that she hears of agents or people in the film industry just knocking her back. And it just, I mean, it would speak to any creative person. So they went out and independently made, it's called origin, and it, justice had some big names in it, and it looked fantastic. And so it sort of shows you the process going through there. And she went on to say, in this moment, there are a lot of folks telling us what we can and can't do, what we should and shouldn't know, but all that can be defied. I was hungry. I wanted to make a film. There was no one coming to deliver it to me. If I wanted to get it done, I needed to figure out how to do it my way, embracing the vulnerability of risks and leaning into what I know will be the rewards. And she just said, I am a visionary. I will be the one to lead us there. And she talked about soft prep, hard prep and doing prep. And I. I was so inspired by watching this, and it just made me think about my career and our careers as authors. Are you, have you been sitting back for many years and hearing rejection after rejection after rejection? And there's a lot of negativity in the industry at the moment about things. And, you know, fair enough. You can keep going after what you want, and that's fine. Or rather than what feels like flogging a dead horse, just do what you want to do. Don't worry if. If it's not the conventional way, just go for it and get it done. And these words really inspired me. I am not someone who is sitting around waiting. I am out there doing, and I want to just keep doing. So these were some of the things that I was thinking about it also with these new decisions that I've made, it's a shift now and what being a hybrid author means to me. So I will, you know, I'm still all writing and book orientated first, but I'm starting to delve into a deeper process that's really exciting me about, you know, providing reader experience. And all this is going to come out in the next couple of weeks. I am going to launch a kickstarter on the 1 July with my women's fiction, but also provide more, more than the book there. And I just really, that really is what excites me at this moment. So I can't wait to share that with you all. I hope that wherever you're at in your author adventure, if you're feeling stale or sick of the nothing happening, make something happen for yourself. Don't sit around and wait. Go do take action. Join masterclass and watch Ava's thing, because honestly, that is what you need. You need a bit of inspiration to empower you to go forward and do what you want. So, I mean, from even watching that, I got a whole page of stuff I wrote down, and it was really what I needed to hear.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Noah Asher is an award winning author for his non fiction christian book Chaos overcoming the overwhelming, where every book sold a copy will be donated to a prison library or rehab center across America. Welcome to the hybrid Author podcast, Noah.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: Yes. Thank you for having me.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: We're so excited to have you. We're just going to jump straight in. Can you tell us, how did you come to be a writer?
[00:10:32] Speaker C: Yeah, it's kind of funny that I'm writing because I remember in school when my teacher would tell me to write a 2000 word essay, I'd get so upset. And now here we are with an 83,000 word book. So it's kind of funny. But for me, it was writing this book out of the book is called Chaos. And it was writing it out of my own chaos where I was just feeling so overwhelmed and so just paralyzed with pain, just going through so much difficult, sort of chaotic moments in my life. And I realized I needed to, like, read something to help me kind of combat what I was going through. And after I kind of came through my chaos, I realized, you know what? I want to write and share a little bit about my story, but also share more about things I learned through my own journey with chaos to help others. And so that's how it came about writing. It just kind of fell into my hands, but I'm so thankful it did. It's now become a big part of my life.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: No, it sounds amazing. And I think that that's a key part to writing and why a lot of us writers do end up writing. Much like yourself. I didn't enjoy school so much. I remember liking English, but quite funny that I didn't finish school, so. And I've come to do writing and it kind of is, well, you didn't. You can't do that because, you know, you've got no editing background or anything like that. But for me, the same as yourself, it was quite a cathartic process to write out feelings and thoughts and make sense of it. And obviously what's good about writing is that you can use your experiences and words and things to help others. So now it sounds like a very powerful book and it's doing well. So huge curious congrats. Today's topic is on what to do and not to do hybrid publishing. So it sounds like that's the path that you've gone down for the book. Can you tell us about your experiences publishing hybrid? And how do you define this term? Because on the hybrid author podcast, I started out with that term because I was just trying to keep all of my work under the one umbrella. And I put it out because I self published and looked for a traditional deal and that was my sort of hybrid. But since doing the podcast, there's so many different areas that hybrid comes around within the work and the genres and not just the way we publish. So, yeah, how do you, how do apply to you?
[00:12:41] Speaker C: Yeah, for me, I consider, especially since this is my first book and I'm really happy with how it turned out. But for me, it was starting the journey of, okay, I know I have a good product, how do I go about getting it published? How I go about getting it into people's hands? And, you know, thanks to the awesome Google, I started realizing that just coming across a literary agent isn't really how that works. And so I realized that hybrid publishing was a great opportunity for me to legitimize what my book would look like and how to get it in stores and how to get it sold on all, you know, online platforms. But it's still some semi self publishing. And the best way I describe the hybrid process is it definitely is something that is a useful tool for people who go, I have a book, but I know zero ideas of what to do with the book. And so that's how I look at hybrid publishing is it's just a great medium in between self publishing, doing everything on your own, and then, of course, landing a book deal with the traditional.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: Publishing now that's it. So did you go through like a sort of one stop shop company, like, to help with the editing process, the COVID design and all that sort of stuff, and the, like, the producing of the product?
[00:14:01] Speaker C: Well, they offered, it was a one stop shop. It's a christian publisher. That sister company does a majority of christian books that are seen online and in stores today. And so for this, they offer a one stop shop with marketing and editing and producing everything and publishing. But for me, I realized some of it was, it was there was a middleman. And so when you have a middleman. You pay for the middleman. And so some of the marketing that they would tell me they could do for me, let's use Google Ads, for example. Oh, we can do Google Ads. Well, if I go on Google Ads myself and spend $300 in ads, they want to. They want to charge you 500 for doing the work for you. So I realized some of those steps, I could cut out the middleman by doing myself, because I do have a great team. I own my own business, and so I have a great team around me that was able to help with the, the marketing of the book. And it really is for anyone who's looking at hybrid publishing is definitely a good way to go in terms of getting your book out there to, on the different platforms. But just keep in mind that some things you need to be willing to do the legwork on your own and really dive into marketing. And the best way I can put it is this is whatever your strengths are, don't pay for those parts of the service.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's fair enough. But it's the same across the board in this day and age, I think, with whether you have a traditional publisher who's doing everything and you don't have to cough up any cash upfront, you still have to go out and promote your work. And whatever way you publish, I think it's still on you to go out there and let people know about it for sure, because there's so many books out there, isn't there?
You've got to be a self promoter as well. When you say christian book, is that because you've got sort of christian values within the book and the content? Was that important to go through a christian publisher?
[00:15:55] Speaker C: No, you don't always have to do it that way. For a christian book, there are many. You know, the term, I hate to use this term, but it is what it is. But it's kind of like secular publishing. I could have used that. But what helped me with using a christian company for the christian book? It really helped me zone in on companies like christianbook.com, who publishes just christian books. So it helped me get on places in the states like Walmart and of course, Amazon, but it also helped me get on christian platforms like christianbook.com dot.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: Yeah, fair enough. I suppose it's just, it's almost like a niche in itself, isn't it? Like the non fiction genre or this or that. And yeah, there would be specific publishers for that. So now that's cool. And, yeah, the COVID is really interesting. Did you have much to do with that. It's. Yeah, yeah, I would.
[00:16:44] Speaker C: So it's kind of funny. I, I'm very, I'm very, very, very analytical about things. And so I knew I started researching great christian book covers and things like that on Google, and then I would take screenshots and I literally made a spreadsheet of going, I like this part of this, you know, cover page, and I like this part of this cover. And I really started really diving in and going, okay, I figured it all out for you guys to that for the editors, and they brought me back this cover that was horrible. And I was almost in tears going, oh, no. What have I gotten myself into? If this is the quality of the product, I'm in trouble. And then I was like, let me sleep on it. Let me figure out. And I literally had a dream and it was that umbrella where the different words of chaos were just raining down upon the umbrella. And I think that for me, the book is all about how chaos comes in many different forms. And so sometimes it is a cancer diagnosis, sometimes it is anxiety, rejection, divorce, fear, loneliness. And so I wanted the different words of chaos to be looking like it was raining down upon you. And I had that dream. I woke up, I started drawing. I'm a horrible jar, but I drew it out and I told the editors, all right, I was like, this is what I want. Please make it happen. And they did. I'm very happy with it.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, it looks fantastic. I think it's really good. It's really powerful. So that's one of the positives, I suppose, with working with a hybrid publisher is it still sounds like you've got an element of control from it and that you both, it's like a collaborative project, I suppose, that you're saying no. You actually can say no.
Whereas I think in a traditional publishing house, they are. You're kind of feeling, I don't know how much say you would actually get, in fact, minimal, depending on the size of the publishing house, maybe for the smaller, independent, small prices. I think working, a lot of the authors say working with them, it feels more. You're allowed to be more involved. But I guess with the big ones, it's a case of if you know what they say, goals, because they're forking out for the product, I guess, at the end of the day. So the fact is, I suppose if you're working with hybrid and you're fronting money upfront, then you've got a say and some element of control, which sounds quite, that seems like a positive to.
[00:19:09] Speaker C: Me it is because, you know, it is like you said, you're putting the money up front and so therefore you are the customer. And so I can't answer for all public hybrid publishers, but the idea is pretty much, okay, I'm the customer. I gave you this money. We are not taking this book to the printer until I'm happy with it.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Oh yeah, yeah.
[00:19:29] Speaker C: And so, yeah, it's very hands on. But it also taught me things. I mean, I'm almost finished with my second book right now and learned a lot about what I would do and what I would not do going forward. For sure.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: Would you like to share some of that?
[00:19:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I can. I would say I was not happy with my actual hybrid publisher. It doesn't mean that I'm not happy with hybrid publishing. I would say it's very important for you to lean in, do your research on reviews, go on places that you can get true, like trustpilot, sites like that where you can get a true understanding of what the customers are saying. First and foremost, I would have done that with the hybrid publisher I used. They were very, very weird about certain things that I just didn't like. They, for example, I told them after we published, I said, okay, I need a high resolution cover of, or like photo of my cover for the book because we're going to put it on a billboard. And they said, well, the contract says you can't have any high resolution photos until you end your contract with us.
[00:20:35] Speaker B: That is a bit weird.
Why?
[00:20:38] Speaker C: I said, you know, the more I market this book and promote this book, it means more money for you guys and for me. So it only makes sense for you to give it to me. And they said their issues were sometimes people will use them to get the inside of the book looking really nice and the COVID looking really nice. And then basically they send out and shoot out PDF's of the book in its entirety to people and so they're losing money. And I said, well, I'm talking about the COVID I'm not talking about the interior. I understand the idea of the interior being an issue. You. But come on now. You know. And so we went back and forth on items like that and I felt like they were very excited about, oh, you have a cool message to share. We want to help get your message out there to the world. It's only going to be x amount of dollars. And then once I gave them the money, it was kind of like they went silent for a little bit and I had to basically get them on the phone and go, no, no, no. We're not doing this. We're going to. I have a deadline of when I personally want this book out. We're going to do this. Let's get it done. And I just had to stay on them. I would say that if I did not own my own business and I was stuck to crazy work hours, it would have made it near to impossible to meet my own personal deadlines just because of how much I had to stay on my publisher, which makes it.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: Hard for, like, obviously, as a business owner, you're a go getter and you can hear that in your voice, someone who's coming at this new. And as I said, it's hard because if they don't know the process, they don't know anything, and then they go with someone they're sort of putting their trust in, you know, in a company, I guess. And if they go silent and they don't feel like they should be approaching them and, oh, yeah, I feel for anybody out there that that's what they've got to do. You know, if they've, they've not got this or confidence to do that.
[00:22:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And I would say that lean into your strengths. And so, for example, like, I have my own ability to, to create graphics and to create websites. And so, like, I did my own website, but that was something they would have offered me. And so what I would do, what I would say to people is, if your strengths are, like, the marketing side of things, don't, you don't have to choose a hybrid publisher that is offering you one full package that's making you spend money on things that you can do yourself. Find those publishers that are saying, hey, as part of the hybrid deal, we're going to make sure we get it on all of the major platforms and so we can get your book out there. We're going to handle all of that part, because that's the hardest part, getting all of the ISBN numbers and all that worked out to get out there to the world. And so it's like, if they would, next time, I'll just put it this way. Next time on my next book, I'm going to find somebody whose specific job is to just build the interior for me, me, as well as make sure all the formatting is good for all the different major platforms that sell the book, and then I'll handle everything else. But that's because that's my strength. If that's not your strength, if someone's listening to this and they're not tech savvy, then yeah, you may have to fork out a little bit more money to get the marketing part done that you want.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: Do you think then it's better than, rather than go to a hybrid publisher? I can see the strengths of both, but if you're working out what your strengths are and then you've got a list, like actually outsourcing freelancers that do that sort of stuff over, say, going to hybrid publishers.
[00:24:14] Speaker C: Yes, I would say that's a big thing. And we're actually my company. We're actually, because we figured out the marketing strategies and getting people both on podcasts, we figured a lot of that stuff out. And so we are now offering to hybrid authors services to help them get trained for interviews as well as get them booked for interviews.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: Oh, cool.
[00:24:37] Speaker C: And so we're also handling their socials, we're also handling their, their website design. We're able to take that on and kind of be off hired as a contractor to do all of those sorts of things. But I would. The way we're marketing it is we're telling people, hey, you chose a hybrid publisher, why not choose hybrid marketing? You know, you're paying for those sorts of services that are getting you placement just like you paid for services to get your book place.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that makes sense. And that's cool that you've, you know, that's something that's come out of publishing as well. So. Yeah, that's really good. Well, I mean, the book obviously sounds like it's got a huge message and you're using it to make positive change. Would you have any advice about sort of the style of writing or how an author who feels they've got a big message and they want to use their book to help people? Have you got any tips around that?
[00:25:31] Speaker C: Yeah, because my book is more of a, it reads like a self help, non fiction sort of book for me. It was very important, especially using scriptures, that I didn't want to get any of my, anything taken out of context. And so I put people around me that I trust and I highly respect to read the book a few times before I ever hired a hybrid publisher to read through the book and give me their thoughts. And so truly anything applies, even if you're writing fiction, just to make sure the story doesn't have holes, get people and surround yourself with people that can read the book ahead of time to really connect you, to make sure that the quality book you're bringing to the publisher is already ready to go. Because these hybrid publishers, they're not reading it for context. So you have to make sure that what you're bringing to them is solid, whether it's fiction or nonfiction. And so make sure you do that sort of work before you ever jump the gun and get a publisher, because you have to make sure your material is solid.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's really good advice. And do you recommend, if you're wanting to make positive change, like your statement, where every book sold a copy is donated to a prison library or rehab center across America? That's really amazing. Like, something like that is making a difference.
Would you recommend doing something like that for the cause that the person's trying to help or write about?
[00:26:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because I think. I think with hybrid publishers, most hybrid publishers can understand that you're not doing this for the money. You're not going out to try to buy a new car. So with that mindset, it's a great opportunity for you to say, okay, if I can work with getting my book out to the world and for it to have a cause involved, now you're getting the book out to even more people than you thought. And I've done many book signing events where people, you know, they'll come up, they'll see the banner, they'll love the logo, they'll. Or they love the COVID and they'll make comments about it. And then I already pretty much have them sold on buying one. But the second I tell them what the proceeds are being used for, oh, they're sold. They're like, yeah, you know what? I'm gonna go ahead and buy two. You know, I'm gonna go ahead and buy three. And so it gets more books sold on the front end, and then it allows me to buy some on the back end. And so before I know it more, you know, I'm doubling up on the books that are being sold, but they're not just sitting in my closet somewhere. They're going to good to good causes. They're going to good places to help people find purpose in their pain, because that's what the book is about. And so I highly recommend that if you're not doing this for the money, you're doing it simply because you feel like you have a message that you want to share. And that can even be true with fiction. You know, there's wonderful fiction books out there that have a great message, have a great storyline. If you're wanting to just get that out to the world, definitely highly recommend putting a cause behind it.
[00:28:35] Speaker B: No, that's. That's really cool. And is, I take it, like, the prison system and rehab centers, they're. They're the types of people. Well, the types of facilities you want to help.
[00:28:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Years ago, I found myself in prison and went through addiction myself. Because of that, I wanted to give back to the places where I feel like I needed to, because this book was what I know I needed to hear when I was in my deepest, deepest, darkest chaos. And so now I want to help people while they're in the midst of their deepest, darkest chaos. There's three things I always try to write with, and it's hope and help and humor. And those three things I try to share when I do speaking engagements at these addiction centers and rehab centers, in jails. And so. So I know how important it is for people to feel like they are loved, but also to feel like that they have something to live for. And so that's why I want to give back.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: That's amazing. Honestly, very powerful story, Noah, and it sounds like you're making a real difference. And best of luck with the second book as well. Is that a follow up from this one?
[00:29:42] Speaker C: No, it's same genre, but it's a different premise and very, I will say, especially winning. This is my first book. I applied for one award so far, and I got it. And so it definitely. Yeah. Thank you. It raised my confidence levels. So this next book, I feel like I'm just going hard. I'm going in, and I feel like it's just going to be a very well done product this time around.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: Fantastic. Well, huge congrats again. Can you tell our listeners where they can discover chaos, your next book? Everything you do and, you know, on offline.
[00:30:19] Speaker C: Yeah. Everyone goes to the, like t h e the noah asher.com. so that's thenoahasher.com. the know, they'll find all the different links on where they can purchase the book, as well as my instagram, as well as other resources, other interviews I've done and other articles that I've been featured in, everything to do with myself, my book, chaos, and then even our chaos movement team that is helping other authors market their books.
[00:30:56] Speaker B: Fantastic. Well, thanks again, Noah. That was wonderful.
[00:30:59] Speaker C: All right. Thank you so much.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: So there you have it, folks. The truly inspiring message of Noah Asher. Next time on the Happy Daughter podcast, we have a mid year mashup of all the remaining guests from the first half of 2024. I wish you well on your author adventure this next week. That's it from me. Bye for now. That's the end for now, authors, I hope you are further forward in your author adventure after listening, and I hope you'll listen next time. Remember to head on over to the hybrid author website at www.hybridauthor.com dot au to get your free author pass. It's bye for now.
