[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello authors. I'm Joanne Morell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for authors. Thanks for joining me for the hybrid author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your books. You can get the show notes for each episode and sign up for your free author pass over at the hybrid author website to discover your writing process, get tips on how to publish productively, and get comfortable promoting your books at www. Dot.
Let's crack on with the episode.
Hello authors. I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to. The podcast in today's interview is a mid year mashup of all the rest of the guests who have come on the podcast since the end of March 2024 and this is episode 120 built in book marketing with non fiction author Anna Featherstone episode 121 20 years of publishing and book consultancy in New York City with Malcolm Margolis episode 122 actionable strategies and tips for authors marketing and selling books with smart author media book marketing expert Chris Bennetti episode 123 using your experiences to connect with your audience with children's author and autistic adhd art psychologist Chelsea Lukar episode 124 how a book succeeds in making the reader the fourth character via immersive writing in travel memoir. Episode 125 navigating lifes complexities and applying them in writing with non fiction author Liz Long. Episode 126 Just write for Kids picture book Our Australian heart with front cover illustrator and picture book author and artist Rachel Robertson episode 127 setting up as a micro publisher through print on demand Pod with author and screenwriter Les Zigg episode 129 TikTok tips for authors with fantasy author Renee Hayes episode 130 Right Way down collating a work of children's poetry for traditional publication with Rebecca Newman and Sally Murphy and episode 131 what to do and not to do hybrid publishing with non fiction Christian author Noah Asher. And if you're keen to listen to the first set of guests from 2024, from January to March, then you can do so over at episode 128, an almost mid year mashup.
So in my author adventure this week, it has been busy. I've been completing the review of my print book, the writer, the hairdresser, and the nurse, getting that all ready for the Kickstart starter campaign that I'm going to be running. So the book has been going back and forth between myself and the printer who I commissioned to do the formatting for me this time. And so it's been sort of getting that to scratch and finally signed off on that work, which was good. Always feels like, you know, a good feeling when there's been like a big, mammoth task that you've been working on, and finally you've got to the end of that. The next step in having the print book prepared is to get a proof copy. And the one thing about working with. So my process for this book, if you've been listening to the podcast regularly, you'll know what I've been doing. If you're new to the podcast or you've missed a few episodes. So I have already published two nonfictions, two non fiction books through Ingramspark. So that is based in Perth, Western Australia. That is over east, so that gets shipped across. And this time around, I just thought I wanted to see how I would go working with local printers, local to where I reside in Perth, Western Australia. And so one of the perks of that was because my printer is literally 1015 minutes drive, if that pretty much up the road. He hand delivered my print book to my door, my actual front door of my house. I'm not sure if he does this just because I was so close or obviously he's in the area. And that was a real nice personal touch. And I was very pleased to receive the review copy and looked through it, and it just, the paper quality is fantastic. I love the COVID I love the COVID Anyway, before it was made, shout out to Peter Ryan, who's also a local artist and animator who did the COVID And so it's just, even though this is the review copy, it wasn't a bound copy. That's not what they do. But it sort of was held together with an elastic band so you could see what it would be like with the sizing and things like that. But, yeah, you can just see the quality. And I looked through that and I gave the go head for the print run to proceed. So that's really exciting. And I've just got to say, for anybody who is considering self publishing, independently publishing, just do it. Well, for me, it just lights a fire inside of me to put my ideas down on the writing process, you know, to put my ideas down on paper, can construct it into a story, have it edited, have it proofread, have it formatted, have someone bring the COVID to life, have a printer bring the product to. Physically, my hand just makes me so inspired. I just. I love this process. I absolutely do. It makes me smile. You can probably hear it in my voice. I think at the heart of hearts, I am an indie author.
I haven't actually had anything traditionally public? Well, I have, obviously. I've had articles and magazines and things like that. So yes, I am a traditionally published author, but not in the novel sense, which is obviously a goal that I've been pursuing these last years also, and one that is still a goal. But I just feel in these last few weeks, it is not. It doesn't, it's definitely not an important goal of mine at this stage. I'm so loving what I'm doing with this project, with the women's fiction work and what I'm going to do with Kickstarter. It just, what I want to feel from this industry is empowered. I want to feel inspired. I want to feel creative and just excited about what I'm doing. And I've just not felt that really in terms of the traditional publishing side. So I. If you listened the other week, I went across to the Rotna's writers retreat, which has traditionally published authors come over and speak, and from attending that, the attendees get a chance to submit to the traditional publishers. There, there's a specific window that's open, and I'm not sure whether I'm going to have anything ready because it's not. My goals have changed. So I kind of just wanted to say as well, mid year, a lot of people is the time where a lot of people address goals and, and, you know, from the start of the year, usually I've seen start thinking about goals for the following year round about October, and putting them into place, say December. And this year, things have kind of taken a pivot. And that's absolutely fine to be able to change it up, change route. Nothing's the same. Nothing's set in stone. Things happen that can be out of your control. You know, there's just so much that comes around with making these decisions, especially in terms of business, your author business. So for me, my goals at the start of the year was to have the women's fiction book work. Well, I had wanted to have that before the end of the year finished, which had still brought it into this year. And then I started work on a young adult novel, and I still very much will finish that book because the story, I absolutely love it. I love the characters. And at the moment, it's still pretty much in the first draft phase. The story is plotted out and it's ready to go. But I haven't actually written out a full first draft. I received lots of feedback on this trip to Rottnest from fellow writers and the publisher. Quite detailed critiques, which I will implement into the work. And should I have it ready when it's time to submit? Course I will submit it, but it's not at the forefront of what I'm doing at this point. That trip kind of made me realize that. And yeah, I'm just going to go full steam ahead with the women's fiction because the way that I feel having done all this work and having the book in my hand, I just. It's moving forward. It's going after what I want. It's not sitting still waiting anymore, because I want a career from this. I want to earn money from this. I'm not afraid to say it.
It's not a dark secret or whatever. You know, I want to be an author. I want to run a business. I want to do it all. And yeah, there's some things and goals of mine that aren't really serving that purpose at this point. So, yeah, gonna follow what obviously lights my fire, which at the moment is the independent publishing. And so if you are looking at your goals, just assessing whether they fit in with where you're at now in your author career, your publishing career, and making, you know, determining if what you're doing is fulfilling, you know, serving you, making you happy, because I want that in a job. And, you know, this. I do treat this as a job. It's not a hobby. It's not something I'm doing. It isn't something I'm doing for fun. But I want it to be fun as well as all the other aspects that come into it that you need. You know, the discipline. I say patience, but listening to podcasts the other day, and they were talking about the traits of an indie author is the impatience. And that is me wholeheartedly. I am very impatient, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that because you can still go out and get what you want. I've been impatient about the work.
I've learned from that in the past, but I think that can also be a strength. And, you know, I could use that to pursue full steam ahead with what I want to do. So, yeah, that's all. It's all very exciting, and I can't wait to share it with everyone. So the first step is a Kickstarter campaign, which, for those of you who have never heard of Kickstarter, it's a crowdfunding platform to help, you know, industry professionals from all industries, not just publishing, but film, television, business. There's loads to get ideas off the ground now. So for me, I'm going ahead with the writer, the hairdresser and the nurse women's fiction book, regardless, in ebook, audio and print format. So that will always be happening. But the idea I had for like an immersive experience for the reader is that the three women in the book, they are best friends since school, very close connection, and when they're, you know, they're working through the trials and tribulations of their life to do with their careers, their marriage, their family. They call emergency penal and platernite together and they crowd around whoever's house. It's generally Christy in the book because she's got five children, so she's not easily able just to leave them. She also has a sort of deadbeat husband who's, who's not working and it doesn't really support her in any way, emotionally, financially, nothing. And so I wanted to kind of offer, try and offer this type of experience to the reader and to do this. I've been busy, obviously working out how I can do this and, but it's, it's quite costly. So rather than me just full steam ahead, if I'm going to do a Kickstarter around this idea, and obviously if it gets off the ground, if people like it, then it's something that I will continue to do going forward. And I'm so excited about it that I just hope that others are too. Most people I've spoke to about it seem to be quite on board and think it's a lovely idea. So yes, the idea is that I'm going to launch on the 1 July, so keep your ears pricked and keep your eyes on social media for that. And I can tell you how you can support this. But for now, if you love the podcast and you want to show your support, you can buy me a coffee
[email protected] thehybridauthor you can buy one coffee at $3.03 at nine or five at 15. Shout out to fellow young adult author Karen Cunningham, who recently bought me five coffees. Karen says, just discovered your podcast and I'm smashing through them. They are stuff full of useful information. Many thanks. Thanks to you, Karen. I dearly appreciate it and it means so much that you're listening and you're enjoying, because at the end of the day, this is why I'm doing it. I'm doing it to fulfill my need for sharing other people's stories and connecting with others, but also to spread the information for us to learn, to get better, to grow.
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You see people saying, oh, I've just got my print run done. Any tips for marketing? I just feel so worried for authors, like, it's so hard to get visibility that if everyone's leaving it to the last minute and putting it in the I'll do that when I've got books in my hands, I'll start marketing it. Just too late to get your book properly out there. So what I've done with my books is I've kind of built marketing opportunities into the actual manuscript as I go. And that might mean for fiction or for non fiction. Who do you get to write your foreword? You know, who do you use for your interviewees? Who are your experts? And for fiction authors, it might be where you set your book. Blarney books and art in Victoria. It's a little bookstore down there and for months in succession, their bestseller in the top ten has been the Port fairy Murder series. Because the books are set in port fairy, so tourists come in, they're like, oh, wow, I'm going to buy it now. Robert Gott could have set that book in an imaginary place or set it there, but used a different name, but he didn't. And so that becomes a marketing tool for him because it's got an instant base of tourists who go, wow, that looks interesting. I'll get that. There's an indie author, Leigh Laner, who I met up at Byron Riders as well. She writes the Anethea series and she's it's a fantasy, like Romance fantasy and all sorts of other interesting genres she's blended. The setting was inspired by Hamilton island, like the geographical features of Hamilton island. That's the backdrop for the book. So that then gives her a hook to get that book into those bookstores on the island or into, you know, stores for sale. So it doesn't have to be a real world place, but it's using those, thinking about how you can use setting to then, you know, get some marketing out the other end to make it a bit easier.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: You know, I worked with hundreds of authors. It's fiction. It just has to be such a compellingly well told story. But, and if it's nonfiction, it really needs to teach somebody. But if somebody comes to me and what they've basically shown me is what reads like a diary, like, what value does it have for a reader? And that's. It seems obvious, since I've actually had people say to me, oh, I hadn't thought, who should read this? And people come to me with all sorts of questions, how to get published. I'm working with one author now, not as a publicist, but as a developmental editor. She has written and published lots of essays. She's a doctor. She is an integrative physician, and she's hilarious. Her writing is funny. Her writing gives wonderful insight into what it's like from a doctor's point of view to have people entrust their care with you. And all of her essays are really gripping. And I've helped her place some of these essays, and then we started talking about turning it into a book, and there were too many scattered themes in it. So I've been working with her to kind of pull a couple of themes, weave them together, write an introduction, and it's really gotten to her thinking about who she wants to read. You know, the book. People come to me clueless how to find a publisher. They've already written a book. It may be pretty good, and they have no idea. And I'll give them guides and tips of different routes they can take, whether it's self publishing or whether they want to get an agent to try to get a major publishing house, there are a lot of resources online to get that information. But, you know, people outside the industry probably don't know.
[00:16:43] Speaker C: There's leveraged approaches, and there's not leveraged approaches. There's things that take your time, and there's things to take your money. So, you know, I don't think anything is done wrong, and I don't think people should really have that lens. I just think that there's things that take more energy and effort, and there's things that are a little bit more leverage, which is less energy, effort and time, but do cost money in exchange. So for me, you know, like traditional methods, there's a lot of like pray and spray efforts where people go out and they just like share their book as much as they can in all the communities that they can. And that's obviously manual and, you know, questionable how effective that is. Obviously doing, you know, speaking tours and getting your books out in that way. There's doing podcast tours and getting a book out in that way which are all fantastic opportunities and can create some leverage for you because you're leveraging other people's audiences, but they obviously do come down to your time being used. And then, you know, there's the like the social organic hustle that you can do as well. You can create YouTube channels for your book. You can, you know, have a page and share that kind of stuff as well on your personal page or your business page around your book, you know, as an author. But again, that's sometimes questions questionable how effective that is. And it does take a lot of energy and effort, you know, to kind of do that approach as well. So for me, you know, I just looked at it from a different perspective. You know, how do we, instead of spending so much time and energy, how do we, how do we use money and do some really effective advertising to get in front of the potential right readers for us to get our book sold or give our book away? And that's, that's kind of the approach that I have taken because it ultimately is leveraged and you can kind of turn a dial up and down just based on how much you want to spend.
[00:18:19] Speaker D: When I'm hearing these just most beautiful stories and just I've had moms contact me saying, you know, their kiddos were just beaming. I've had moms who have bought six copies of the book because their kiddo wanted to give it to their teacher in their library and their family friends and had adults who have contacted me who said they were in tears because, you know, they really saw themselves. And what a gift to be able to give those people. And that just blows me away that I was able to have the opportunity to do that and just create these meaningful experiences for these people. And that went into this saying, if I can have one person that reads the book that feels seen, you know, that's enough for me for the whole journey. And, you know, I've had far, far more than one. But, you know, that for me was the driver is if I can do that, that's all I want to be able to do with this book, because.
[00:19:13] Speaker E: With travel, it can be tempting to describe what's beautiful and interesting, but I think it has to have a higher emotional content than that. It has to have had quite a profound impact on you in order, like, to have a really high bar for inclusion. And so that's the way that a place made you feel, or, you know, how surprising it was, or the interactions with the people that are there, rather than simply, this is beautiful. Wow. It's amazing to be there, because I think, from a psychological point of view, our brains are wired a story, and it's really rewarding to see the character growth. So the person that they are at the start is not the person that they are when they finish the book. Even in travel writing, I do believe that, well, in travel memoir, there needs to be insights that are internal as well as the external. And then it's how you're kind of processing that. Or, you know, I mean, poverty, I found that was confronting. I'd never seen a lot of poverty close up. And the journey actually made me want to be a journalist. And that's because I begin the journey having no idea what I'm going to do with the rest of my life. And by the very, very end, I resolved to work out how to become a journalist in the UK, because that's where I'm about to go and live. And it was because of the things I saw. So the things that I choose to describe are the things that really aroused my empathy and my perspective. Like, that trip gave me perspective, and it's the gift that keeps on giving. Once you get perspective, if you can hang on to it, I think that's a really valuable thing, to have a more content life and just a balanced life as well. It helps you get on with people as well, because you have the perspective to see your problems are not the worst problems by far in the world, most of the time.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:05] Speaker E: You know, so it. So it was, it was. It's got. It's got to have some psychological impact on you. I think sometimes it is just fun. Like, you know, when I was in Laos, you know, jumping along the river in a rubber ring and dancing in the jungle in bikinis and having shots like that, to me, is a quintessential Southeast Asia banana pancake trail backpacker moment. So that had to go in. But I was like, this is one of the coolest moments in my life.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Well, I would invite any author to find their own unique path and to listen to their heart voice, to listen to that voice, that is reassuring and hopeful and kind and knowing and follow your instincts as to what is the best path for you. I mean, there's so many different ways to approach any project, and it's not a one size fits all experience. So I would encourage people to be compassionate with themselves and to slow down and do what feels like the right approach for them and to not listen to other people.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: Or the bad voice in their head. Right?
[00:22:21] Speaker B: Especially not the shitty voice in our heads.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: Right?
[00:22:24] Speaker B: Don't listen to that one. The one that says, you know, you're never gonna finish, and who do you think you are anyways? And nobody's gonna read it. I mean, we can't ever make those voices go away entirely, but we can find ways to put them in their place and to strengthen our heart voice, so that that's the one that we hear more often.
[00:22:44] Speaker F: Australian Hart is a beautiful anthology from authors and illustrators all around Australia celebrating what it means to be australian. There's a wide range of mediums and styles in the book, so there's digital watercolour, obviously. Mine is collage, and it's just a diverse celebration of the demographic, of what it is to live in Australia. It's a project spearheaded by Romie Sharp. She's just the most beautiful human, and she is from just right for kids. And she really wanted to give illustrators an opportunity to submit their work in a similar way to the way authors are able to submit their work. And. Yeah, so a portion of the proceeds from this beautiful book go to the Indigenous Literacy foundation, which is an incredible organization that gives quality literature to in the hands of children who deserve it. So the book itself, I was given a color theme or a brief, so mine was red and my theme was flora and fauna, and I just sort of ran with that. So my involvement is that my artwork is on the front cover, which is super exciting, and I've managed to use, as I mentioned earlier, painted paper collage, which is something that I'm super passionate about. And my piece is titled Poppies in Kings park. And my oldest daughter's name is Poppy.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: Aw.
[00:24:04] Speaker F: And my second daughter is Daisy.
[00:24:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I was gonna say poppies and.
[00:24:08] Speaker F: Daisies riddled through it. I've just had a little boy, so he didn't get the flower name. My page is about poppies in Kings park, which Anzac day important. And it's a dedication to soldiers who fought during the war for our beautiful country. And some and many may the ultimate sacrifice to do so.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: How much do you think you need to educate yourself on actual printing logistics as a maker or publisher?
[00:24:33] Speaker G: Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean, one of the great things about both platforms is, you know, with authors that we deal with, we always order a proof copy of a book so they can see what it looks like physically. And then, you know, sometimes we get authors changing the paper type or the wherever the covers gloss on that or so, you know, I think, I don't think you really sort of need to know a lot about the actual specifications behind printing because I mean that's a special in itself. But something that would be important is to sort of go in and have a really good idea of what you want to do. So I mean, just checking your own bookshelves or going to the library or going to a bookstore and then looking at the sort of books in that genre that you're writing and just looking at the format, looking at the sizes they use, things like that, jotting that down and then going to RF's platforms and then just sort of seeing what comparable sizes they have, what, you know, paper stocks they have. I mean, the good thing about the proofing part of it is you can get it sent out to you like with lost cover and white paper and then you can change it over to matte paper, outside mat cover and cream paper and see what it looks like differently. So you can sort of play around with it. I mean obviously it's going to cost you a little bit, but it's worth it to see what it's like in the, you know, physically because the way you envision it and the way it arrives are two different things. So, I mean, I've been looking at, like, I just was sort of doing research about seeing what you like and then just trying to duplicate that.
[00:25:48] Speaker E: Coming from someone who used to be like, oh, just really give it a go like it is. My experience has been super positive. Start slow. Like you don't have to put anything up. You can just go in, make an account and sort of suss it out, see what it's all about. Watch a few videos. You'll find people that you genuinely like watching, talking about books and they are just so passionate. Like, these people love books like some people. And it's not just that, like there might be amazing libraries people have created in their homes or beautiful little sitting areas. Yeah, I just, I just think like if you being an author sometimes can be really feels isolating, you feel like, what am I doing? Like I'm all on my own, like I've written a book. I don't know if it's good you have those doubts and then go. Going to, I guess, a platform just full of people who are excited about the same thing gives you that little boost or excitement or, you know, or if you've read the same book as someone's talking about, you're like, oh, I bought that when I read it, too. You know, it's just a bit of connection. And I would just say, give it a go, greedy.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: My dog Fletch likes to fetch a squeaky toy, a stick, a ball, but though he'll run after everyone, he doesn't bring them back at all.
[00:27:01] Speaker H: I also think it's really interesting, the poems that people connect with, because one of the things we'd planned to do when we were looking or dreaming about the collection in general, before it really existed, was having a different poem in the book to cover every child in a class. So that if you were in a classroom and you were handed the book, there'd be a poem in there that each child in the class could connect with. So some kids like really deep, thoughtful poems that keep them thinking afterwards. Some kids prefer wordplay or silliness or nonsense poems. Someone else might like a bit of informational aspect to it. So there are short poems and long poems and all different styles in there. And I think it has hit the spot, because when I'm talking to people, they invariably tell me what their favourite poem is, and it's never the same poem. So everyone connects with a different selection from the book, which I think is. That's a really great thing in a poetry collection, to be able to flick through and find one that. That really speaks to you.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: I take it, like the prison system and rehab centers, they're the types of facilities you want to help.
[00:28:03] Speaker I: Yeah. Years ago, I found myself in prison and went through addiction myself. And because of that, I wanted to give back to the places where I feel like I needed to, because this book was what I know I needed to hear when I was in my deepest, darkest chaos. And so now I want to help people while they're in the midst of their deepest, darkest chaos. There's three things I always try to write with, and it's hope and help and humor. And those three things I try to share when I do speaking engagements at these addiction centers and rehab centers and jails. And so I know how important it is for people to feel like they are loved, but also to feel like that they have something to live for. And so that's why I want to give back.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: So there you have it, folks. A mid year mashup of all the guests since March 2024. I love doing these little mash ups as it's a fun way for anyone listening who might have thought, oh, I don't fancy that episode. But then here a little snippet from it and it actually, you know, starts to resonate with them. That's generally what happens to me with other podcasts as well. Next time on the hybrid author podcast, we have Amina al Sharif and she is the author of the Nadiri fiction series. Originally from Cairo, Egypt, she immigrated to the United States in 2010 as a first generation Arab American and African American. Amina is a member of the LGBTQ community as well as a BIPOC writer, and she has worked with the Joint Special Operations command JSOC for over ten years. As a United States army officer, she's deployed to Baghdad, Iraq, northern Syria, Turkey, Israel, as well as Afghanistan, supporting the special operations community. Amina regularly blogs on medium, document her self taught technical career, and maintains a literary blog on her website. In January 2020, she published her first book, an approach to machine learning in cyber defence of the Department of Defence, chatting to Amina about generative AI for authors, and she's so knowledgeable in this subject. It's such a good episode. Well worth a listen, and one not to be missed. I wish you well on your author adventure this next week. That's it for me. Bye for now. That's the end for now. Authors. I hope you're further forward in your author adventure venture after listening, and I hope you'll listen next time. Remember to head on over to the hybrid author website at www.hybridauthor.com dot au to get your free author pass. It's bye for now.
