Multi-award Winning Author John Larkin on Chasing The Writerly Dream

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello authors. [00:00:01] Speaker B: I'm Joanne Morell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for authors. Thanks for joining me for the hybrid author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals. [00:00:12] Speaker C: To help you forge your career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your books. You can get the show notes for. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Each episode and sign up for your. [00:00:21] Speaker C: Free author pass over at the hybrid author website to discover your writing process. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Get tips on how to publish productively and get comfortable promoting your books at www. Dot. Let's crack on with the episode. Hello authors. I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the road you reside and listen to the podcast in. Today's interview is with multi award winning author John Larkin and we chat his career in fiction for children and adults, imposter syndrome, insecurities, influencers on Instagram and staying relevant, being human as an author John's top tips after penning over 30 books for adults and kids, technology versus nature and the novel. [00:01:23] Speaker A: So in my. [00:01:24] Speaker B: Author adventure this week, been and gone, my book launch, which many of you know, avid listeners of the podcast, the last few weeks I've been talking about, obviously just preparing for that. [00:01:35] Speaker A: So it was a week on Thursday, gone. [00:01:39] Speaker B: It was September 5. It was held at the State Library in town. So in the centre of Perth, Western Australia. Here it was hosted by writing WA, which is our local body, who looks after all the writers in Western Australia. You know, they support their, their writers, their members, the community. They share information, they put on events. It's a great organization and I was extremely lucky and fortunate to be able to, as a member, have them host my launch. And yeah, it was fantastic. So they supplied the venue, they introduced me and my work to my audience. They supplied some tea and coffee and helped supply some of the tables that I had and just were there to support the event going forward, which was amazing. So in the lead up to the book launch, as you heard, I was organising, apart from obviously writing Wa, helping out, I organised it myself. So I organized platters to be made by the lovely platters to please or. [00:02:42] Speaker A: Something, I think it was platters to please. [00:02:44] Speaker B: It was just an independent catering company in town and they were fantastic. They just showed up and their platters were gorgeous. And, you know, I looked at a few options I wanted. Just usually at book launches, things are sort of finger foods and just little picky things. I mean, we're there for the book, not really to have a luncheon. Auntie Pastel went with that kind of grazing platter and they'd organized it really beautifully. And, I mean, other options I'd kind of looked at was you can just. Even in the supermarkets over here, you can actually get pre made platters made up, which are all the anti pastel stuff, which is good enough. But I think by the time you sort of ordered a few of those, and even though they come in just boxes and stuff, the way that the presentation was for this company, Washington, it worked out the same. So I was really, really impressed by them. Myself and my eldest daughter spent time that week making some cupcakes, and there was a wonderful place that I found that was locally sourced, you know, little sugar, sugar cake toppers of my book. And it was just really fantastic. That was incredible. I just wanted sort of little touches around the place. I wasn't going to go overboard. It was just meant to be simple and elegant. I hired some white linens because I didn't actually have any, but I think it's actually really good to invest in white linens. I always like a white linen tablecloth. I think that looks quite, quite nice. And I think coming up for being. Being able to go to events where I'm in person and selling books and having a table, white linens is always nice. I had a banner made which was from just local office works. There's loads of printing companies that do these banners, and every author I know has them, you know, the sort of fold out two meter ones. But I've got to say just. What? Watch your fingers. Mine's nearly got taken off with this thing because it just, you know, you're pulling it out like a poster and it can just snap back really quickly into its holder. And it was just. I nearly got. I think my sister actually did get a cut from it, and I. Yeah, so I'm gonna have fun going to author events and pulling this thing up and down and just being aware that it's quite dangerous. But, yeah, I mean, I was quite happy with the banner overall. I think it came out quite well. Some of the colors were a little bit brighter for that, but, you know, it was all live and learn and, yeah, I thought it looked really professional. And, yeah, my lovely friends that I had help. I had my sister there to sign, help take the payments for the books and write the names down for me to just be signing books and greeting people. I have my two children there, so they could see what mummy does for a living. And I had asked a friend of mine, shout out to you, Stacey, who had owned some glassware and just. I used to work with her when we were teens in local pub. So I asked if she could help just pour the wine and stuff like that. So I just kept it really simple. I only had wine as an alcoholic drink. I did think about beer, but usually wines acceptable. I had three kinds. I had red, white and sparkling rose. I had got some soft drinks and things, and obviously writing Wa had done tea and coffee, which didn't actually even cross my mind, but I know, for not stereotyping here, but definitely some of our older generation family friends would have been very grateful if my mum was there for a cup of tea. But, yeah, I mean, I was getting very. So I was obviously busy with the organisation, and it didn't feel that there was a lot to organize, but then it did feel like a lot, and I just, on the lead up to it, I just. I was just getting. It's that fear, you know, I talk about it a lot, all the time, and I don't think I'm ever, ever not gonna feel it. The more established I get, the more experience I have doing these things. But it just, I think that you come to expect, at least before any, any event or any sort of thing that's gonna put you out of your comfort zone. These feelings of fear that arise within yourself now. It's author fears and how to overcome them is a non fiction book I have for authors that's out there. It's never gonna. It's never gonna not be current, that book, because these fears that come, they, they're there to help you be safe. When really, because you're doing something you haven't done before. So your body's like, no, don't do it. You know, and it's. It's trying to keep you safe. But seriously, in the lead up to the launch, I was shitting it, basically. I was so nervous. I felt very nervous and scared. And again, it all comes with this career and putting yourself out there. And I kept thinking, how can I. [00:06:54] Speaker A: Get out of this? [00:06:55] Speaker B: How could I just cancel? Maybe? You know, all these sorts of things was just. It's a shame, because I wanted to celebrate the hard work I've put into this book. I wanted to make sure, like, I enjoyed all that, but because we were obviously doing an in conversation. And thank you very much, Sasha Wasley. If you're listening to, for guiding our conversation, which I felt very comfortable being up on stage with another. Well, we weren't up on stage. We were in a theater sort of lectrum, a theater where people were looking down on us and we were below, but I felt it was easy enough to just talk to her and focus on her and obviously look at the audience occasionally while I was talking, but I felt quite comfortable talking. Everybody said I was confident. Everybody enjoyed it. I liked that. A lot of people that came hadn't actually ever been to a book event before, so it was a new experience for them, and a good one at that. That might encourage them to also start going to these things a bit more often. I've had people, you know, starting to read my book and reach out to say that they've read the first few chapters and they're really enjoying it. I've had another friend reach out and say that she's finished it and just really commended me on my writing. So to start hearing all these things is very nice, and because at the end of the day, the whole point is the book and for people to enjoy it and connect with. And that's what I said. Even if your life is. Even if your life is not crap, and it's good just to take some time out from it, just to transport yourself to somewhere else. I mean, that's what books are all about, aren't they? So the evening went very well. It was a good turnout. I sold a lot of books, so that was great, because obviously, you put in a lot of work, and the payoff is not, as an indie author, the payout is not initial. And. Yeah, and then we packed up, and then it was done. So if I hadn't gone ahead and done that experience, and I was so joyful after it, you know, if you don't put yourself out there, you don't know what's gonna come next. So you can't. You don't have anything to draw upon for the next time that you do it going forward to extinguish the fears that you have. And this is what I talk about all the time. You're thinking about having a book launch. Do it and don't be scared. Be scared. Feel the fear, but do it anyway, and you won't regret it. I promise. So beforehand, I went on the writing Wa podcast, which is called Pod street, with the Mister Wil Yemen, who has been on this podcast a couple episodes back. And that was good, a good way to sort of warm me up before I went on to talk in front of people, because generally, I'm a podcaster. I hide between my. I hide behind the mic and at home. I don't. I haven't really ventured out that much, but I am actually. I've got a few, quite a few events that are coming up that are in person. And you know what? I make a big fuss and a big deal about it, but I actually really love it. I am. I am a social person and I do like it. But I've got to say, after that book launch, it took me like two days to recover. I was so, so tired. Even just the lead up to it, I think I was just doing. There was a lot to organize, a lot to do. And then on the night there was a lot to. There was a lot of energy output, energy from me. So I was very tired after it. I spent at least a couple days just relaxing and doing nothing, watching tv, just chilling and then getting back on, starting to get back on top of jobs and things this week. So I have got to upload my books onto my website which will be available for sale only on my website to the public as of next week. They will be on the third party stores come possibly October, I think, if not later. This will be in the show notes, but just yet, the writing wa pod street. I am episode number 63 and it's author Joanne Morell on publishing, podcasting, travelling and her debut novel. So that's up to listen now, folks. Links will be in the show notes this week I wanted to get back into all the bits and pieces that I've still got to do. There's a lot of work piling up, which is exciting. But I've had a couple of personal issues that I'm not going to obviously get into, but I just wanted to mention them because I have struggled with this to a have any energy. The problem has been emotionally draining me, basically, but I just wanted to make note of it. To say that if you do have something arise in your personal life and it takes a lot from you, emotionally exhausts you type of thing, be kind to yourself. I didn't turn around. I could tell that how I listened to how I felt and it was a case of I didn't have much. My tanks are empty, I'm running low. I had to just look after myself. Work had to come second. I had to look after people in my life, at least for like a day and a bit. And those things were very important. But that's not saying that some people you can realize that you need to step back from your work and that's okay, but then also other people might find solace and escape in their work. So whichever is best for you, but just listen to yourself and be kind. So at the start of the week, I definitely was nothing. In the past. I probably would have been quite hard on myself, being, oh, you should be doing this, you should be doing that. But no, I knew exactly what I needed to do and that was not anything. And which I did. And now I'm back into my working, my work. And it feels like I said with the second thing, it's like it's a bit of solace. It's a bit of an escape. So listen to yourself in your personal life. If you've got a lot going on and you can't face certain work aspects, talking about your writing career, that's okay. You will pick it up again when you can and will and love it. Once I get all these tie up, all these loose ends, I've got a bit of a list that I'm ticking off. I will. Well, I will be. And I'm already got it conjuring in my mind. The book two in this series. This women's fast paced, emotionally charged contemporary women's fiction series. Much like the writer, the hairdresser and the nurse, which is the book I've just launched under the pseudonym Zara Ellen. This one has the title the lawyer, the singer and the server again by Zara Ellen. Some people said, what? You know, what's the server? And I'm like, well, the server. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Someone who serves food and things. [00:12:48] Speaker B: And they were like, oh, I wouldn't have thought it was that. They think maybe a computer server. And I'm not sure whether it's a scottish thing server or. Yeah, anyway. And they said waitress or waiter. But, you know, I thought the lawyer, the singer, the waiter doesn't really work for me. So I'm sticking to server and hopefully people understand what that is and go from there. Three women's perspectives again, told from third person. Not sure if it's going to be chronological or jump back and forth. It's fleshed out a bit. So in the moment, I'll be plotting, getting story and the character development together. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see how fast I can go with this. I would love, love, love to get it out in November. But if not, it will be at the beginning of next year. [00:13:39] Speaker C: Thorn creative, where beautiful websites for authors are brought to life. No matter what stage you're at with your writing, your stories deserve a dedicated space to shine. Whether you're just starting out or have a bookshelf full of bestsellers, your website is the hub of your author business. Finding everything you and your books offer together, Thorne Creative can nurture all aspects of redesigning your old site or start afresh from the initial design. They can provide ongoing hosting and maintenance to marketing your books online, saving you time, money and stress trying to wrangle your site yourself. An author website built by Thorne Creative can easily direct readers to your favorite retailers, your publisher, or simply set you up to sell to them direct. The options are endless. Thorne Creative have worked with many authors across all genres and know what goes into good, functional working author websites. To sell books, head on over to thorncreative.com, dot au websitesforauthors to read author and publisher testimonials and to see what they offer and some of the sites they've created. [00:15:06] Speaker A: Multi award winning author John Larkin is one of Australia's most prolific authors and his new book Brittany and cold take on Paris is one of the funniest books you'll read this year. John's award winning books, the Shadow Girl and the Paws were celebrated as top notch australian literature and this one is no different. Welcome to the Hybrid Author podcast, John. [00:15:26] Speaker D: Thank you so much, Joe. What a great introduction, too. Thank you. That's really ivel who you talking about? Me? Seriously, thank you. [00:15:35] Speaker A: We're absolutely honored and thrilled to have you. [00:15:37] Speaker B: That bio's all on you. [00:15:38] Speaker A: So huge congrats on all your success today. Well, yeah, you just jump right in. How did you come to be a writer? [00:15:46] Speaker D: Oh my goodness. What a story. I didn't like. I left school. I went to a tough western suburbs high school in Sydney. Couldn't wait to leave. Horrible experience. And I was actually the quintessential jock. I was an athlete, I played professional soccer and that was my career. And I was going all the way to the top and I played in the National League here. And I was offered trials in England with Leeds United, who were a gun club at the time. So I went over to play for them and I completely destroyed my left knee. And I was in hospital, had a reconstruction, and the surgeon said, you'll never play again at a very, at a serious level. Anyway, so I thought, what the heck am I going to do with my life? And like, I think being an introvert, I was sort of drawn to books because I was a reader. And so I thought, I'm going to have a crack at the being an author. And so I started writing when I was in hospital and I was completely useless because I just came from nowhere, this idea of being a writer. And so I kept at it. And as you know, Joe, if you keep at something, you get good at it. And that's the secret ingredient. And I thought, well, I'm just now obsessed with this writing thing, I'm going to follow it to as far as I can. And that, that's. That's the kind of backstory from athlete to author. Like, I think I'm only myself and Albert Camus, who've made that same journey from professional soccer to. To live literary author. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Yeah. It's quite opposite ends, isn't it? [00:17:06] Speaker D: Yeah. You think it's this kind of dichotomy, but I think it just goes to show that if you want to, you have a passion for something and you focus on it, you can achieve whatever it is as long as you put the work in. [00:17:18] Speaker A: Yeah, but did you, did you say. [00:17:19] Speaker B: That you've always been a reader? [00:17:20] Speaker D: Look, I think I was a reader in primary school, and high school, for me, was the absolute wilderness years. It was a horrible. I think I had a fairly horrible experience in high school. And I suppose that kind of turned me into an introvert. I wasn't a reader then. I just tried to survive at a high school. And look, don't get me wrong, there were some great people at my school and some great teachers, too. But some of the teachers were psychopaths and they had no business teaching children, particularly vulnerable teenagers. And so I kind of fell through the cracks. And then post school, I became a reader. It all stemmed from that. [00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. No, I say it just because sort of similar stories to mine had little. You think that the writing sort of comes out from nowhere. I didn't pick it up till later. [00:18:03] Speaker B: On in life as well. [00:18:04] Speaker A: But always a reader as a young child. And then found some school memorabilia, I think, from primary school years to say, you know, oh, reward certificate, merit certificate for story writing and stuff. But high school lost. [00:18:15] Speaker B: Completely lost. [00:18:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Bad experience as well. Scottish high school. Yeah. Terrorized. So, you know, it just sort of comes back to you later on, so. And I'm a firm believer of it's meant to be, you know, cookie a little bit like that. So. [00:18:29] Speaker D: I love that. [00:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:31] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:18:31] Speaker A: Well, Brittany and co. Take on Paris. How did that come about? [00:18:37] Speaker B: Oh, well. You don't like a Britney? [00:18:41] Speaker D: No. I think I did two very serious novels like the Shadow girl on the pause. The shadow girl was on homelessness, and that was about a teenage girl I met during a school talk who was homeless, and she shared her story with me and I thought, I've got to write this story. Then after that time, a nervous breakdown where I was in a psychiatric hospital. And from that came the pause, which was my sort of anti suicide novel. And they were very, very heavy, deep novels. And then I had hiatus because, um, I got married or I remarried, whatever the case is. And we had. We had five children, teenagers and early twenties in our house. And that was. It was an insanely beautiful period, and I will. I would not have missed that for the world. But then eventually, two of them moved down. One became a firefighter, my eldest became a doctor, and then it sort of gave us sort of room to breathe. And my wife actually said to me, you can write again now. And I thought, what? No excuse, as you know, Jo. So out of that, I was. Because I'm actually the writer in residence at Knox grammar school, and my students were asking me how to write a killer opening sentence, what you might, might have heard as a sizzling start. I don't use that term myself, but I wrote this sentence. It's not every day your mother is arrested for transporting a horse on the roof of your car. And so I said, that's full of intrigue, it's full of humor. That's what you want to do. And there were. My boys were saying to me, what comes next, sir? I said, I got no idea. I said, go and write it. So what started off as an opening sentence, then I turned into an entire novel in that same kind of madcap feel. So it was such a fun book to write. [00:20:28] Speaker A: Yeah. That's amazing. And is there more in the series coming in that or. [00:20:33] Speaker D: Well, I've been sort of flat out. I've just finished an adults novel, and so that's. It's called the Bogan Book Club. So that's been a journey. It's been a great journey. But then Larry and House want me to write the sequel, so I'm currently having cleared my decks of the Bergen Book Club. I'm now doing the sequel to Britney and Co. Take on Paris. Not quite sure where it's at right now, but it will evolve over the next few months and I'm sure I'll knock it over. It'll be fun to write. [00:21:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I bet. [00:21:03] Speaker A: The Borg and book club. Is that. Is that fiction for adults, then, or what's that? [00:21:06] Speaker D: It's adult fiction. Yeah. It came about through my brother. My brother's a tradie. He's your blokes bloke, but he's also a reader. And we were having a barbecue one day, and he said to me, brother, I got a great idea for a book for you. Now, you know, as an author, Joe, that people are pitching their ideas books to you all the time. This was slightly different. I said. I said, oh, please don't tell me he goes, no, no, I'm going to tell you. He said, the Bogan book club. Oh, that's gold. Yes, absolute gold. I said, I'm going to write that. And so I did. [00:21:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:40] Speaker A: You can just see it being a total movement as well, like around the country. [00:21:43] Speaker D: Absolutely. And that's, and that's kind of grew. I said, how am I going to do this? So I sat down to write. I've got no idea what this is about. But then, you know, you trust yourself. You just trust yourself as an author. It comes from someplace, from within. We draw on our own stories. You know, I'm very much a working class boy, and I was able to tap into my own childhood, my own. And when I left school, I ended up working in the factory for many, for five years before I went on to. Decided to go back to school and go to uni. And so a lot of my experiences from that factory world came into this particular book. And it was, it was, it was just gorgeous to relive those memories. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah. What kind of factory? [00:22:24] Speaker D: It was a pharmaceutical factory. As from being a scottish girl, you'll know it. The boots company. [00:22:29] Speaker A: Oh, I love boots. [00:22:32] Speaker D: They had a small presence here at one point in Australia, and in the early eighties I worked for them. They weren't, they didn't have any outlets, but they sort of sold into different, I suppose, chemists and supermarkets and whatnot and. Yeah. [00:22:45] Speaker A: That's amazing. Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to get my hands on that when that comes. No, that's good. You've had a few careers over your lifetime, haven't you? [00:22:55] Speaker D: This is my longest, and I think I'll stick with this now, Joe. Yeah, this is, this is the one. So, yeah, I mean, like, you know, everything you do is to support your writing, so whatever that is. Yeah. I mean, like, being a writer, like, who would, who would choose to be a writer? No one with an ounce of sanity would ever choose to do this. But you do it, and that's the journey it takes you on. You do other things to support that. So I'm fortunate now that I can do this full time. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Oh, there's definitely, there's definitely highs and lows, there's torment and then there's, you know, pure, beautiful moments when you actually get through. And you mentioned before, you know, trust. Trust and faith and things like that. Did you always have that believe in yourself or from. [00:23:41] Speaker D: Every author has imported imposter syndrome? Like, for me, I left school, I worked in a production line of a factory. And I think, and now here I am, an author. I think at some point someone's going to tap me on the shoulder and say, larkin, you are a complete fraud. Get back to the factory. And I go, thank you. Because that's where I. Wrong. So I don't know what it is about the insecurities of working in the arts. It's just the way it is. [00:24:04] Speaker A: And that stigma, isn't it, though, that it's supposed to. You're supposed to be some literary genius. And I dealt with very much the same as what you're talking about for years, because I even finish high school, and it's like you're supposed to be. Everybody thinks to write a book, like you're going to be this smart, whatever. And I think that's where it comes from, because you don't probably think about yourself in that. In that way. [00:24:25] Speaker D: No, you just. You just think, I feel I'm a complete fraud. And then I know when I like. I mean, I just finished, like, the last pass of the Bogan book club. I actually went, oh, geez, that's pretty good. How the hell did I do that? You know, it's like you do that because I don't know how anyone ever writes a novel. Can I give a course on writing a novel? Probably not, because I don't know how to do it myself, but somehow I managed to do it. I know that sounds weird, but that's the way it is. [00:24:53] Speaker A: No, it's truth, though, and I think it sounds like you've got a. Quite a distinct voice and something to say. So definitely, maybe the way you articulate things and what you've got to say is, like, good and resonates with people, because you're an award winning author. Not just an author, a very prestigious, award winning one. [00:25:11] Speaker D: Owner again, I'm on stage picking up these awards, speaking in front of a thousand people. I'm thinking, oh, you got all these people fooled, haven't you, Larkin? I mean, I suppose that's a working class, northern english boy coming out like, who the hell are you? That's probably important because it keeps pushing you to go higher and go harder and keep at it. [00:25:33] Speaker A: Absolutely. And stay humbled. [00:25:37] Speaker D: I think as an author, you don't have much choice. You know, humility wraps itself around you because you really think, well, if you don't believe in yourself half the time, so I don't suppose you can be anything other than humble. [00:25:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. I feel like it's half the battle is sort of believing in yourself, I think I'm half there. Got more to go. So obviously I've had, you know, great career, lengthy career. Off the top of your head, some of the, what's been some of the best and best and sort of most frustrating parts of chasing the writerly dream. [00:26:08] Speaker D: The chasing the rightly dream. I think I started writing at an age when you think you don't know that only one in 3000 manuscripts are published. You don't know that. You go into that blind and then you get that first contract. You think, seriously, me? So. And then I don't think it's ever changed from that. Like, for me, I get a new contract. I think, oh, my goodness, I'm getting another book contract. I get another book published. And that's the beauty of it. And you. And I think I'm growing as an author. I think I'm getting better. Even though I'm, like 61 now, I still think I'm developing. I just love that. And I want to keep on doing that. The lows, I think the lows probably is the way that maybe authors are viewed by society. You think like someone declares themself an influencer on. I mean, this whole other world has come up since I've started writing because I had my first book published in the early nineties. But since then, we've had this whole Instagram influencer thing. And, like, people who don't have a thought in their head have millions of followers, people who couldn't influence me out of a burning building. I mean, like, we're biggest. And where have these people come from? I think, you know, am I, am I culturally relevant anymore? Because we've got people whose ability is to put on lip gloss at a fashionable way. And I think, wow, I'm not part of this. The zeitgeist. It's, it's moved on, and I'm not, am I, am I relevant anymore? And suppose that's the biggest I found challenging over the last few years, the, the culture of vacuousness. Yeah, I'm struggling with that a bit. [00:27:45] Speaker A: Do you, do you feel you have to, you have to do it to stay relevant? You're feeling that, or are you just ignoring it? [00:27:52] Speaker D: No, I think I ignore it. I think the best thing I can do as an author is to say, look, this is what I've got to offer over here. I've got, for me, this is depth. This is like a, I love the human condition. I love all the complexities of being a human. I'm going to continue to write about that if you think staring into a rice paddy wearing a bikini the size of dental floss by quoting some vacuousness about how we're all special then, then go down that path. But over here we've got something a little different, hopefully with a little more depth. [00:28:25] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, even doing this, you know, podcast thing, that's pretty, pretty relevant, pretty new. [00:28:31] Speaker D: This is the best part of it, I think, the emergence of the podcast rather than the commercialization of thought, which is, you know, you look at the Murdoch press and what they're doing to uphold this sort of right wing culture, and I suppose we would call it entertainment in the mainstream media now they rev you up. So we got this kind of dichotomy happening of left and right, and I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we got, we've got so much more to offer. And I love that you guys, like you, Joe, are doing these podcasts. So other voices are coming through. [00:29:02] Speaker A: Well, I love the podcast because it is that human connection and it is such a good way to connect with people that you otherwise wouldn't be able to, you know, halfway around the world, whatever. It's. Yeah. And I love it. It's fantastic. [00:29:13] Speaker D: Yeah. There are other voices that they don't listen to. Sky or Fox, you know, come on board and listen to independent voices because otherwise we're just not getting a platform anymore. [00:29:24] Speaker A: That's it. I know. What would be your advice, John, to writers looking to have a career such as yours, you know, over time, 30 books for children, teenagers and adults. What are your top tips? [00:29:35] Speaker D: Don't give up, just like perseverance. That's the thing. You've just got to say if this is what you want, if you want to be a novelist, even in the current day and age, I don't think it's really changed. You know, they say one in 3000 books have been published. So, okay, maybe you might have to write 3000 books. You just have to really go for it with a passion. Don't give up. That, that's the thing. If you, if your heart is set on being an author and if you want, if you want this really badly, then, then, then go for it. Your voice, you will find a platform eventually you. And that is through. My preference is the novel. I still love the novel. Despite all the different options that are out there now, all the different media. The novel for me is still the most beautiful form of the english language. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And do you just write the ideas that come to you or do you kind of. Because obviously you do adults, you do kids, you do all sorts. Or are you. Does your publisher sort of hit you up for which books next? [00:30:32] Speaker D: It's a bit of both. Sometimes it's driven by me, sometimes it's purely publisher will say, will come to me and say, we want you to do this. With the Bogan Book Club, for instance, was a great moment. I was having. We were having birthday drinks for the legendary Danny v over at the Great Northern in Sydney. I was chatting to James Layton, the publisher of Larrikin House, and we were talking about this idea of, like, has anyone pitched you a good idea? And we kind of both rolled our eyes. I said, well, I've only ever had one. And he said, what was that? I said, the Bogan book Club. And he goes, all right, I'm going back to Melbourne on Monday. I'm sending you a contract. We're doing this. I had no idea where that came from. I had no idea what I was going to write it, how I was going to do it without being patronizing. But he said, you can do this. And so I went off and did it. So it's a combination of sometimes it's driven by me, sometimes it's publisher driven. And that's when you're at the sort of, I suppose the high end. Like when you start off, you just write your own story, you submit it to a publisher. I hope you get up and it's difficult, but, and you know what? It should be difficult. The good voices eventually drift to the top. And it takes a long time, as you know, Joe, to really write something that's worth listening to. I hope it doesn't sound patronizing, but you need to be doing this for a long time before your voice. And you hear that term often, that you're voiced. Your own DNA is an authorization, and you establish what that is. And it does take a while. And it should take. [00:31:58] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. I've been tinkering with this, I won't say tinkering for a very long time. And same, I feel like I finally just found mine, which is for the older, the older market, definitely. But it's taken sort of starting off in a ya genre to come all the way down to middle grade picture books, to go all the way back up to back where I started to. [00:32:18] Speaker D: Realize that's my voice, that's the journey, and it'll change again. And I don't know what's coming next. And that's the exciting part. I've spent, I suppose, 40 years building up these skills. And now I can just sort of feel like I can aim them or whatever. I would have whatever I choose. But it's, you know, it's a kind of. I still want to be relevant and still want to write stories that take people away. I noticed some because I still catch the train, and when I'm waiting on the train platform in the morning and I watch the train going the other way and I watch people. There's, like two or three people in the carriages reading books. [00:32:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:53] Speaker D: Everyone else is on their phones. [00:32:54] Speaker A: They could be reading a book on their phone. [00:32:56] Speaker D: Yeah. But they're probably not. [00:32:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:00] Speaker D: I want those people to be reading books. I think we're missing something there. I think we need to offer that alternative and say, listen, your phone's okay. Can give you, like, it'll. It'll. It'll attract. It'll keep your attention span going for a couple of minutes, but come and read a book with us. Come and. Come and do this. And so I think we can still. We've still got so much to offer. [00:33:19] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I agree. My eldest daughter is, like, twelve. And they just. They love YouTube and it's. Some of the stuff they watch. It's. I have to say, can you switch it off? Like that person's voice is doing my nutty. [00:33:33] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. I'm a cyclist and I was. I was cycling over to Parramatta park, which is. Which is where I'm in Sydney from my home. And it's about a 25 kilometer cycle there and back. And I made a mental note to watch because I don't go on roads, I go on cycle ways. And I made a mental note to all the people who was passing, the individual walkers. How many were on phones and how many were just out there experiencing nature? And I gotta say, it was about 50. 50. [00:34:01] Speaker A: Wow. [00:34:02] Speaker D: So people are going out walking, but they're still on their devices. They're not seeing the beauty of nature or the river or whatever. I think. Yeah, I. Anyway, it drives me to distraction. Yeah. [00:34:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:17] Speaker D: Maybe I'm turning into curmudgeon, but no. [00:34:20] Speaker A: No, just observant about what's actually going on. [00:34:23] Speaker D: I think I'm observant. Yeah. [00:34:25] Speaker A: No, that's good. So what can we expect from you in the future? Obviously, you know, you're. [00:34:30] Speaker B: You've done the Bogan book club. [00:34:31] Speaker A: Are you looking to do. What are you thinking? [00:34:34] Speaker D: Oh, I'm still. I still. Look, the three areas for me are middle grade. Ya, and adult. And I'm hopefully doing about two books a year now across those three areas. My next book after this one I'll probably go back to doing another middle grade. I'll do another Britney book, then I'll do another adult book, and then I'll probably do a y after that. So just keeping on going. And I did have this feeling, like, during COVID I felt this. There was a moment there because I'd done the shadow girl of the pause, and there were my award winning books, as you mentioned. But there was a moment there I felt I wasn't. I don't want to say cancel. I wasn't cancelled. But it felt like the world had moved on from me. I think it's because there was Covid, and we had all our kids living with us, and so I wasn't really writing. And I felt after that, the world wasn't interested in me anymore, and that was in. But now it's like I've never. It's gone gangbusters. I can't believe it happened. Yeah. [00:35:32] Speaker A: You just have to write another book and put it out there, and then they'll be back. [00:35:36] Speaker D: Yeah. And that's kind of what's happened. Yeah. But I did. I did feel from it. I said to my wife, I think. I think my career is over. I think I'm done. I don't think anyone's gonna publish me anymore. Again, the insecurities come in as they do in our world. But then I wrote zombies versus illuminati, which was a middle grade book. And then I met with Danny and James, and they asked me to do Brittany. And I did that. And then the Bogan Book club. So now it's. Then I did how to avoid been eaten by sharks and so for Walker books. And so it's just gone. It's just gone crazy again. And crazy is good. [00:36:07] Speaker A: That's amazing. How long does it take you sort of each book, like, middle grade ya adult? [00:36:11] Speaker D: It can. It can vary. Like, for me, if I'm really focused on a book, I can write, like, bug and book clubs, 80,000 words. I probably wrote that in seven months. Just completely focused on it. And, of course, then you have the editorial process, people finding what's wrong with it, what's right with it. And my wife's very involved in that process, too. And eventually, it's probably a two year process all up from the moment I start writing to the moment it's out there. And it's a beautiful process, as you know. [00:36:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. No, it's amazing. It keeps you coming back, doesn't it? It can't be that bad. [00:36:50] Speaker D: I know we say this, but I walk down the street. Sometimes I walk on the street. I think, that person's not a writer. That person's not a writer. How do you come? That's kind of where my thoughts are at. I just feel so privileged that I've arrived at this space where I am an author. And I think, how do you process life without being an author? And I don't know. I just don't know. [00:37:10] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I get it. I absolutely get it. I'm not a sense. I'm just about to publish a woman's fiction contemporary novel and the next one in the series. As I've started to plot, I've noticed a lot of things that, that I felt was similar to my life. And I thought, this is me. This is how I process, obviously, you know, cathartic coming through subconsciously. But then you recognize it and you're like, oh, okay. [00:37:33] Speaker D: That's what we do. We download our lives. And it's the best therapy, isn't it? [00:37:38] Speaker A: It's cheaper to give everybody have an opinion about it as well. [00:37:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:43] Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing, John. And congratulations on all your success. And we just love the books and can't wait to see what else is to come. And can you tell our listeners where they can find everything you do on and offline? [00:37:56] Speaker D: Oh, online. I mean, the Internet's ubiquitous, isn't it? So go to your local bookstore. You can actually walk physically into a bookstore. These places still exist and I would highly recommend them. Yes, of course, everything's online too. So, yeah, I'm out there. I'm like, I'm a complete introvert, but I sort of hide from the public a bit. But yeah, I'm online. I don't do a lot of social media myself. I keep withdrawn from that and that's a conscious decision. But if you, if you need to contact me, if people want to contact me, they can find me online and I will get back to them, of course. [00:38:33] Speaker A: So not such a recluse. We can still find you. [00:38:36] Speaker D: You can always find me. Yeah, I do have a digital thumbprint, so I'm out there. [00:38:41] Speaker A: Well, that's amazing, John. Thank you so much for your time and your expertise and everything. [00:38:45] Speaker D: Great chat, Joe. Lovely to see you and lovely to talk to you. [00:38:55] Speaker A: So there you have it, folks. [00:38:56] Speaker B: The truly outstanding crack with John Larkin, superfellow and exceptional writer. Go and check out his work now. Next time on the hybrid author podcast, we have novelist, essayist and reviewer Jean M. Blasberg on practicing reinvention through new characters and novels. I wish you well on your author adventure this next week. That's it from me. Bye for now. That's the end for now. [00:39:18] Speaker C: Authors, I hope you are further further. [00:39:20] Speaker B: Forward in your author adventure after listening, and I hope you'll listen next time. Remember to head on over to the. [00:39:25] Speaker C: Hybrid author website at www.hybridauthor.com dot au to get your free author pass. [00:39:32] Speaker A: It's bye for now.