[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello Authors.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: I'm Joanne Morrell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for Authors. Thanks for joining me for the Hybrid Author Podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author both independently and traditionally publishing your books. You can get the show notes for each episode and sign up for your free Author pass over at the Hybrid Author website to discover your writing process.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Get tips on how to publish productively.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: And get comfortable promoting your books at www.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: Let's crack on with the episode.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Hello authors. I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to the podcast in Today's interview is with million copy best selling author Jacqueline Harvey on creating a thriving career in children's fiction and navigating a changing publishing landscape. And we chat how Jacqueline approaches creating characters and stories that resonate so deeply with her audience. Her upcoming hilarious new picture book series following a sheep named Kevin who likes to do things that are distinctly un sheep, like changes in the publishing industry, generative AI book market trends, advantages and challenges of working with a traditional publisher as opposed to exploring hybrid or self publishing routes, particularly in children's literature and much more so in my author venture this week did a market stall. It was so this is my second one if anybody missed out on hearing my any of the episodes from last year. I did a bit of a big market stall at an artisan market I think that was in November and that was a pretty big one. Roughly around like 3,000 people come through was at the UWA, which is University of Western Australia in Perth. And yeah, it was a big day. It was massive. The stall cost was huge and pretty much just broke even on that. And you know, it was all a learning curve. And so there was a smaller market that was local. To me it was these ones were more sort of family orientated kind of oven evening, you know, food trucks, live music, people come down with their dogs, that type of thing. It was a good selection of stalls, all different, some really nice stuff. I was in between a whiskey stall and a candle stall and really nice people, just very nice to talk to. Not a lot of people though came through and again it was just, it was rather slow and I always said I wouldn't do markets, but I think it was good to sort of put yourself out there and see how you go. But to be honest, advice that I've had in the past was really you need to weigh up when you do these things. You need to do these things to see if they're worth it, first of all. But then you also need to weigh up the time, cost, money and energy of doing it and whether it works out. So obviously if you don't make a profit, it's not worth it sitting there. In my mind, I always thought, well, it feels proactive because you're right there doing stuff rather than sort of just sitting at the desk behind the computer. But the thing is, if I'm an this market and I'm sitting there for, I think it was, you know, you've got your set up and you're set down. So that always adds like an hour or so on at least four to five hours, six hours, say in total. In that six hours, if it's not being profitable and you're not actually, you know, it's not your target audience or readers, I'd be better off having spent the stall money, which wasn't a lot for the small markets, on paid advertising, which, you know, social media, online paid advertising that would actually target my readers. So that, that was a bit of lessons learned there. But, you know, it just depends. I speak to a lot of different people even with the, the stalls next to me and it was just a sort of general consensus across the board that people were sort of browsing, not buying. And maybe it's just the climate that we're in that people are sort of doing it tough. And if you'd like to know more like more of a deep dive insight into markets and my experience there and you know, tips and tricks because there was things that I I'm not a seasoned stall professional but some of the setups that I was next to are and there that were, you know, the elements with my setup that was a bit of a pain. Anyway, you can join the Hybrid Author newsletter
[email protected] where I provide musings that I don't share anywhere else. So in other news, if you caught the lessons learned episode at the end of the year, lessons learned in 2024 and how to thrive in 2025. My pivot, I guess for my Hybrid Author business is last year I was part of a small business coaching mentorship which has been absolutely fantastic. I'd said my you my personal life has obviously changed. I've in the middle of divorce separation. So I am currently a single parent to two children and I just need to take the pressure off. I've been trying to take the pressure off for a bit now. Which single. Anybody who's a single parent out there knows, you know, it's sort of navigating doing everything yourself. So, you know, child rearing, house rearing, income rearing, all that. And sometimes it's just nice to have the pressure taken off. So I said that, you know, the author business, it's a writing business as well. You know, I am a writer, I am well versed in different styles and things like that. So taking the pressure off financially, I have scored myself a journalist job. I am working for an industry newspaper and that is giving me a little bit of a sigh of relief in terms of just taking the pressure off me, having to do everything in terms of even sourcing my own income, doing that myself. It's all right, you know, I just wanted to share that things change, you know, you roll. That situations are different, we evolve as people, our aspirations don't always remain the same. And for me last year it was very much, you know, I want this book business to work and of course I still do, but because of my personal situation of being a single parent and doing everything myself, having that at least just some other help in another department, like not having to think about specific, not having to worry about sourcing income. Like all the income is massive for me right now. And so I'm absolutely thrilled to be undertaking this position. Everybody's extremely nice. Just nice to be doing a different style of writing as well. So my women's fiction series is still a go. Of course it is. Nothing changes for me, apart from it's funny, I've heard this before, that you can have days where you've got to write and do things and yet you achieve some, but then when you're on a time limit, you seem to achieve more. And I'm not saying that that's what's happening for me, but I'm certainly feeling like lots more motivated for lots of things now that I've got a lot more on my plate, which is a bit strange. But anyway, I am waiting on sharing some news which is coming towards the end of the month. That's to do with the writer, the Hairdresser and the Nurse by Zara Ellen, the first in series. So I've stalled uploading it across third party platforms because of this news which I will share once I can. Writing the second book in the series is currently stalled also as I navigate this new work routine. But it's certainly on my mind and something I will be picking back up. Thing I'm struggling with at the moment, social media. So I started the year with a campaign in mind and I think I've only posted like two posts for this campaign. And again, I think it's all just some, it's all just routine, getting yourself used to doing something. But then in my own mind I thought, you know, yeah, I like the campaign and I get what it's about, but do I really want to do this? You know, is social media a high priority? I don't know for me, in terms of been hearing different things about social media, you know, it doesn't matter. People are sort of saying it doesn't matter if you post every day, it's about the content that you post and resonating with people. And I just think that unless you're paying now, you're paying the space to be seen. Organic stuff is very hard to get traction. So I'm not sure how you guys are all going with juggling all different aspects. I just, I want to enjoy what I do in writing and doing all this stuff and I just don't want to feel like, yeah, I have to do this, I have to do that. And social media, I do like it when I'm on there, but time just flies on and then I'm like, my gosh, it's been a week and I haven't actually posted anything since last time.
So, you know, maybe I'll crack that later on. We shall see. It's not that there's not stuff to post, it's, yeah, I suppose you sort of, whilst I'm an authentic person, sometimes just sort of waiting around to do I look alright or, you know, feeling that you have to have a nice background or something to create a video, really, if I can get over myself and just jump on there and say what I've got to say, put the posts out, then my message will get across. So that's something I'm going to work on, I think. Lots of speaking gigs on the horizon, at least something each month this year. So you can join me for Discover the power of Podcasting with me, Joanne morell. That's Wednesday 12th February, Nedlands Library. If you happen to be in the city or around Netherlands, it runs from 10:30 to 11:30. Learn how to use podcasting to expand your reach, connect with readers and build a loyal audience. We'll explore everything from starting your own show to being a guest on others, and how this platform can boost your brand, sales and visibility. Whether you're a seasoned author just starting, this session will show you how to harness the potential of podcasting to grow your writing career. So I hope to see you there, if you can make that one. I'm so excited to come out and talk about podcasting. That'll be my first ever podcasting session, although I have another one. It seems to be a podcasting year. There is a couple In March I'll be running a short course with the Romance Writers of Australia rwa and that is specifically for romance authors. Leverage your podcast appearances to grow your career as a romance author, pitching yourself as a podcast guest a guide for romance writers and there'll be more to come on that. So as I said, bookings are filling up for events throughout the year, so if you're a librarian, teacher, writers group or anybody interested in any of my talks, you can head on over to hybridauthor.com work with me and see what's on offer and book me the hybrid author for your next event. Also, if you're tuning in for the first time in 2025, the hybrid author Podcast is open for guests, so if you're an author or industry professional in the publishing writing world, reach out and pitch me joannybredauthor.come EU make sure you're familiar with the podcast content. Episod are topic based and proactive, encouraging writers to have a hybrid author career which is all inclusive. It's not just one way of doing things. So I look forward to hearing from you. Don't be shy and I'll share further information about how the podcast works if you are successful.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: Thorne Creative Where Beautiful websites for authors are brought to life no matter what stage you're at with your writing, your stories deserve a dedicated space to shine. Whether you're just starting out or have a bookshelf full of bestsellers, your website is the hub of your author business. Finding everything you and your books offer together. Thorne Creative can nurture all aspects of redesigning your old site or start afresh from the initial design. They can provide ongoing hosting and maintenance to marketing your books online, saving you time, money and stress trying to wrangle your site yourself. An author website built by Thorn Creative can easily direct readers to your favourite retailers, your publisher, or simply set you up to sell to them direct. The options are endless. Thorne Creative have worked with many authors across all genres and know what goes into good, functional working author websites.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: To sell books.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: Head on over to thorncreative.com websitesforauthors to read author and publisher testimonials and to see what they offer and some of the sites they've created.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Jacqueline Harvey worked in schools for many years but has had a passion for storytelling since she was a child. She is the author of the popular Alice Miranda Clementine Rose, Kenzie and Max and Willow Woof series, which has sold almost 2 million copies in Australia alone. Jacqueline has also released picture books such as that Cat, Gloria the Great and Kevin the Sheep, illustrated by one of her former students, Kate Isabel Scott. Jacqueline lives between Sydney, Australia and Queensland, Queenstown, New Zealand, and is currently working on several picture book projects and an exciting new middle grade story. Fantastic bio, Jacqueline. Welcome to the Hybrid Author podcast.
[00:13:07] Speaker D: Thank you so much for having me, Joanne. It's lovely to be here.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Oh, we're thrilled and honored to have you. Such an incredible career you've had. Can you tell us, you know, how did you come to write in the children's genre?
[00:13:18] Speaker D: How did I do this? Well, so I was a teacher for a long time before I became a full time writer. And I guess I, I wanted to be a teacher from the time I was nine and a half years old and I wanted to, you know, work in primary schools. And I was very fortunate. I switched through switched schools rather halfway through fourth grade and went from having the scariest teacher in Australia to the, the nicest teacher in Australia, the best teacher. And she really inspired me to want to grow up and be just like her. And I, she was a very creative person. She painted, she drew, she, she played the piano, played the guitar. And you know, I loved being in her class and I loved stories and books and my favorite part of every day was when she would pull up a big old chair and she would read to us. And so, you know, I was already a kid who loved to read anyway, but, you know, that idea of writing stories just sort of came to life. But being a writer, you know, I thought what a cool job that would be, but I had no role models for that. You know, I had, I didn't know any authors, I didn't grow up, up, you know, meeting any authors. Nobody ever came to my school. So it took me a long time to work out how to do it. And so it was really when I was a teacher, I wrote a lot for the kids in my classes and I got to a point where I thought, could I write for a bigger audience than just the children at my school? And so that's when I thought, you know what? I'm not going to die wondering, I'm going to give this a go. And so I did.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: That's incredible. I love that. And I love how just the influence of one teacher can hold so much, you know, especially as a parent myself.
[00:14:48] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You know, you can never underestimate the power of a Great teacher. And, you know, I've been really fortunate to have kept in touch with her my whole life. And I wrote an essay about her in a book called Teacher Teacher last year, which was published. Published last year. And it's basically, it's my love letter to Sally Hogan to say how much she. She influenced my life. And, you know, listeners can't see this, but I have a piano behind me, which you can see Joanne, and she was my piano teacher for a little bit, too, when I was in high school. So, yeah, it's. It's amazing how much one teacher can. Can influence you to, you know, want to do or. Or the corollary of that is sadly not want to do as well. Because I know, I hear. I hear, you know, adults say to me sometimes, oh, yeah, the teacher said I'd never do that. And.
[00:15:31] Speaker E: And I think that's so sad. Yeah.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: There is another side to it. Yeah. I was going to ask if you had dedicated one of your bookstore. Oh, yes, the whole essay.
[00:15:39] Speaker D: Written a whole essay about her. And. Yeah, so. And. And I'm very fortunate now. I mean, you mentioned earlier in the intro about that one of my students, one of my former students is the illustrator of that cat, the Daring Tale of Glory, the Great Kevin the Sheep, and Kevin Saves the Show. And I've been fortunate to know Kate Isabel Scott since she was three years old. And when. When she was in my class in Kindy, I. She was always an amazing artist. This kid could draw right from the time she was very small. And I made a promise to her when she was 6 years old that one day I was going to be a writer, and if that happened, she could draw the pictures in my books. And so I just think it's. It's one of the greatest joys of my life that we do that now.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: So that is so special. That is. It really is. You know, someone's gave to you, you've gave to someone else. And no doubt, you know, your illustrator might do the same as well for someone.
[00:16:27] Speaker D: I'm sure she will. She's an amazing young woman, so. But, yeah, it's lovely to go from having that relationship where, you know, I was the teacher and she was my student, and now we're just friends. Yeah.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: Oh, no, that is absolutely special. I love that. Well, your children's book series, like Alice Miranda and Clementine Rose and like I said, or sitting on our bookshelves, my children absolutely loved your series. You know, captivated young readers around the world. How do you have a special approach or specific approach you have when you create characters and stories, you know, that resonate, obviously have resonated so deeply with this kind of audience. And how do you feel your books kind of are set apart in such a competitive market?
[00:17:06] Speaker D: Yeah, you're not wrong. It is a very competitive market. I think the key to it is fall in love with your characters. And, you know, you have to want to spend time with these characters because you do spend a lot of time with them. And. And so for me, you know, when I first had the idea of Alice Miranda, you know, she was really based on three little girls that I taught. And one of them is Kate Isabel Scott, actually. So, you know, not only did she help, you know, not only does she illustrate my books, she also inspired part of Alice Miranda.
[00:17:35] Speaker E: And I guess it was that sense.
[00:17:37] Speaker D: That I knew this character really well because she was, you know, little bits of these particular three little girls to begin with, but then that she became the best bits of lots of children I've taught over the years. Years. And, you know, not only girls, also boys. And so I think one of the keys is definitely you have to want to be with these characters and spend time with them, and they can't, you know, you can't be sick of them because if you are, it will show in the writing. If you're, you know, if you're not enjoying it, then it comes across, I think, and, you know, even down to. I think you have to fall in love with the bad guys too, you know, with the. The evil characters. And in fact, often I say to kids, I have so much fun writing the baddies because I get to do stuff that I wouldn't do in real life or hopefully I'll never do in real life. I think that's one of the keys is, you know, fall in love with your character. And for me, well, the series books start with the character, and then I guess there's, you know, you put into place the setting and then how is all of that going to work together? Yeah, I don't know. It's. It's an interesting. There is a little bit of magic dust, though, I think, that comes your way when you write something that really. That really flies with kids.
[00:18:41] Speaker E: You know, there's.
[00:18:41] Speaker D: There's that little bit of magic, don't know where that came from kind of stuff as well.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Yeah, because you're saying, obviously, you know, three children that you taught and. And they're there. You're observing them. And it's traits from sort of real children that's perhaps like the connection the kids make. And it's, it's, you know, they. They obviously really, really connect with your books and characters and stories as well.
[00:19:00] Speaker D: So, yeah, you've got to be authentic. I think that's really important is to, you know, be very authentic and, yeah. Believe in what you're writing as well. I think is really important that you've got to. Yeah, I mean, it's often you're asking your reader to suspend their disbelief, so you've got to make sure that you actually believe it as well.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Well, yeah, that's a good point. Well, you have a new hilarious picture book series coming out as well, following a sheep named Kevin, which I love, who. Who does things that are distinctly unsheep, like. So can you tell us, you know, what's the inspiration behind this series?
[00:19:32] Speaker D: Well, I'm. I'm. I'm in New Zealand at the moment in. In Queenstown. And from where I'm sitting in my office, I look out over all of these fields and. And a golf course, and I can actually see from where I am right now, I can see a massive flock of sheep over in one cor of the. The paddocks. And so I was watching these sheep, I watched them all the time. And sheep are not the sharpest tools in the shed. You know, they're not the smartest animals on the planet. And I'd watch them, they'd be spread all over the paddock and, you know, it was as if one of them would sort of get an idea in its head and pass a message around. It was like, you know, hey, guys, guys, we should go for a run. Why don't we go for a run? And it was as if all of them kind of, you know, were telling each other, you know, a bit of a game of whispers anyway, and then it would be like one of them gave the. The signal and they.
To a corner of the paddock and I would watch them and they would run from all over and they would end up so tightly knotted into a corner of the paddock. And they had, you know, their heads in each other's butts and, you know, their armpits and.
[00:20:32] Speaker E: And it was like they looked at.
[00:20:33] Speaker D: Each other and went, what do we do that for? And. And there was always a sheep that stayed out on its own. And so I just started calling the sheep Kevin. And I'd say, kevin, what are you up to? You're on your own again, mate. What's. What's not going on for you or what's happening for you today? And so that was how really the idea was born. Just watching crazy sheep and thinking about, well, who is the odd sheep out.
[00:20:55] Speaker E: And why are they the odd sheep out?
[00:20:57] Speaker D: And what is it about Kevin that makes him stand out from the rest of the flock? And so in my, you know, crazy creative brain, I decided that Kevin, he. He didn't want to just be a sheep. He wanted to be more than a sheep. And so, you know, in the first book, he reads a book which he's trying to be good sheep, and he reads this book called Be More Sheep. And. And then after a while, though, he just can't. He can't be a sheep. He needs to. He prefers not to get his hair, you know, his fleece shorn off. He prefers to keep his lock long and paint his hooves purple. Could that be so wrong? You know, he's. He's his own shape. And so I've been having lots of fun writing. I've written. The first two books are out. And so Kevin the sheep, the introduction to Kevin, who, in the end, you know, he's the guy because he's been learning all these skills. He learns all these skills on YouTube, but it's not Yo YouTube, it's Ewe Tube. He learns all his skills and he. He becomes this very. I don't know, he. He becomes this very skilled sh. Sheep. And he can cook, and he can do hard math sums, and he can play all sorts of sports, but he learns kung fu, which comes in very handy when a wolf threatens their flock. And so in the end, the rest of the flock decide that they. They're not happy just running around doing sheep stuff anymore. They give me. It goes. Kevin has given them bigger ideas how to crochet and conger and save their own rears. And so in the end, they all want to be more. And so but at the end of the conga line, and I love this when I share this book with kids, kids, at the very end of the conga line, there's a character, and I say, there's somebody who shouldn't be here. And the kid's like, it's the wolf. You think he might come back again. And so then in Kevin Saves the Show, Kevin puts on a. He's the host of a karaoke, a singing competition on the farm. And so all the animals participate. And there's this one new sheep in the flock who has the best voice ever. And it's. The way Kate has drawn this sheep is hilarious because obviously it's the wolf in sheep's clothing. And, you know, the Big snout and then the, the, the tail and the big long claws. You know, kids will go, it's not a sheep and get all excited about it and, and then when he bursts out of his because he's got the best voice and he wins the competition and the poor old wolfie, it turns out he's really misunderstood and he says, you know, my pack's throwing me out. I'm no good as a killer. I can't even squash a green caterpillar. I don't want to hurt you. I just want to sing like my idol, Ed Sheeram. Starving.
There's a few puns in there for the grown ups as well. I like to write on two levels.
[00:23:24] Speaker C: Parents.
[00:23:25] Speaker D: I know like it can be so mind numbingly boring when you have to read a book over and over and over to a child if the book is not particularly interesting for the adult. And so I always try and make sure there's something in it the parents will giggle at as well. Yeah.
[00:23:37] Speaker A: Oh, it sounds absolutely incredible. Very, very clever. And I love how it just comes from, you know, your surroundings, your everyday inspiration and watching that and you can, you know, tell like your imaginative, creative brain. Yeah, I just, I just think that's fantastic. So New Zealand is, are you guys from there? Originally?
[00:23:55] Speaker E: We're neither. My husband or I are Kiwis. We're not from New Zealand but we've.
[00:24:00] Speaker D: Been coming on holidays to Queenstown for a long time.
[00:24:02] Speaker E: And so we would come here and go, oh, it's the most beautiful place on earth. We should live here. And so ultimately we were fortunate. We bought a block of land here or a section as the Kiwis call them. And then we kind of thought, well, we'd better build a house. And so we're very fortunate. We, I, I still, we still have a place, an apartment in Sydney that I go back for for a lot of work. So this year I've probably spent 50, 50 time. But yeah, it's, it's very inspirational to.
[00:24:30] Speaker D: Be in the mountains.
[00:24:31] Speaker E: And, and obviously as we were talking about Kevin the sheep before, you know, To See the Sheep and Daring Tale of Glory the Great, which was, is a book about a chicken, is actually based on a true story about a chicken that was owned by a friend of mine who lives here. And you know, this chicken went missing just before Christmas a few years ago ago. And so it's the true story about where Gloria was actually found and just last Friday. So our friends have got, they have this menagerie of animals. You know, they live on an Acreage up on the edge of the Remarkables and there's always a new pet, you know. And so last week I went to meet Billy the Kid who is a one month old wild baby goat who is the cutest thing you've ever seen.
[00:25:09] Speaker D: So Billy the Kid.
[00:25:10] Speaker E: I can, I can sort of feel a Billy the Kid story coming on at some, some point, so.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: Oh, that's gorgeous.
[00:25:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: We've been to Queenstown and I was absolutely blown away and it's very similar to Scotland. I find New Zealand and they've even stolen some names I think.
[00:25:23] Speaker E: Oh yes, a lot of Scottish names. Well, Dunedin is, you know, it's got the big, big castle in Dunedin which was built by a Scottish resident. So yeah, it's very much. And then that's one thing we, my husband and I really love Scotland and so we, we feel that, you know, Queenstown is a lot like Scotland.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Yeah, they're just not as far.
[00:25:42] Speaker D: Yeah, just exactly. It just doesn't take that horrible long haul trip to.
[00:25:45] Speaker E: It's really easy. It's like two and a half hours from Sydney.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: That's amazing. Well, with your extensive career as a best selling author, you've likely seen a lot of changes throughout the publishing industry. And have you adapted to this shift or the rise of digital media and self publishing? What advice would you give to hybrid authors navigating these changes today? So hybrid author podcast, it's not really for people who are using hybrid publishers. It's more the term coins off sort of people who, who are doing it themselves and traditionally publishing and doing all different things really.
[00:26:20] Speaker E: Oh look, I think there's, I mean things have changed hugely in that, you know, I think it's, it's even more competitive than it used to be. But I think in terms of opportunities, you know, there's a lot of people are doing really well like publishing their own work through various channels like Amazon and you know, I dare I say the A word. But you know, they are really big. But I also think, you know, know publishers, publishers are always looking for, you know, something new, something exciting. And so I think, you know, there are still opportunities with the traditional publishers as well. I think you've just got to understand that ebooks and audio is something that's become a lot bigger. Like for me, I record all of my own audio books, which I love doing and having the opportunity to do that is fantastic. But I've seen particularly since probably just before the pandemic, but certainly through the pandemic, the rise of audio has been really big. For, particularly for kids authors or actually I think for all authors and also the ebooks. And it's interesting because I always thought ebooks wouldn't really be huge for kids until such time as there was an E reader that was a bit disposable that parents, you know, weren't going to.
[00:27:29] Speaker D: Go and shell out hundreds of dollars for.
[00:27:30] Speaker E: And then the kid says, oh, I left it outside in the rain, or, you know, I lost it with my lunchbox. And I know that there's a couple of new platforms that are supplying a reader with the actual platform. So that's an interesting sort of new thing that's going on. Yeah, I don't know, it's, it is, it's still a, you know, it's, it's a competitive market. It's a competitive world. I think, you know, you're always looking for new avenues where can, where can you sell books? And, and I guess too we are competing a lot with, especially for the children's market, you, you compete a lot with, you know, kids being on screens. And so we have to always constantly be encouraging parents, you know, reading important and reading, you know, will help your kids in so many different ways.
[00:28:12] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's, it's kind of scares me a little bit when they, I don't think there was talk, I don't know if there was talk of like getting rid of, you know, cursive writing. And even my, my kid said the other day, I think the nine year old sort of said something about she could tell the time. But I said, well, I would hope so at this age that you know how to tell the time. And then my other one had said, well, what's the point? Like, you know, we don't need to know because it's all just digital anyway. That's the way it's going to be. That's like the old school where they'll.
[00:28:39] Speaker C: Just do away with all that.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: And I was just like, I think you still need to.
[00:28:43] Speaker E: I mean, honestly, as a, you know, as a former teacher, it really does my head in that I think one of, one of the things that I find really difficult is that kids don't retain content the way that we had to retain content. Because, you know, when you were learning fact, you couldn't just have the facts at your fingertips on your phone or on a computer. And so you actually had to learn stuff and it had to go in and be sort of baked on. And I think, you know, the way kids learn now, it's definitely changed the way their brains are and that the lack of attention span is a really big deal. You know, we've got to help kids to be able to focus. I mean, one of the best things about being a writer is when you get into that state of flow and you just love, you know, you writing and you don't want to stop and you've got this great story and I just, you know, I hope that, you know, kids get that experience because it's, you know, having such short attention spans is not, it's not great.
[00:29:33] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: I think it will fall down to the parents to make sure that the kids have got less screen times and more doing other things, I suppose, because I guess when they're, yeah, teens and older it's, it's their choice. But I spoke to a lot of young people as well and I think they were saying that books are becoming trendy again, like sort of. I know. And yeah.
[00:29:52] Speaker E: With Book Talk and let's make books trendy again. One other thing I was going to mention was AI, you know, the rise of AI. And I think, you know, anyone who thinks that they can just punch some stuff into a computer and get the artificial intelligence to write their books, please don't because, you know, I've seen some really interesting experiments with that. And there's, there's no heart, there's no soul in the computer generated stuff. And you know, it's got its place. I know that, you know, there are certain things that it will be absolutely brilliant for, you know, write a byline for something or, you know, but at the end of the day when it comes to books and, and characters, you want them to reflect that, you know, that heart that you get from, you know, human writers. And so, yeah, a friend of mine, she, she put some stuff in and tried to write an Alice Miranda book and it was just so awful.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm not scared of these tools at all. And I'm, I'm playing around with them at the moment. Not for like a writer, I'm not going to use it to write books. But yeah, just to see what, like, just to see because obviously it's not going away and what people are talking about and, and not to be left behind and understand it a bit and how it can aid me as an author and in my business. But I noticed it so of punches out the same words like it loves the word thriving and things like that. And, and when I read some stuff, you know, I couldn't, it wouldn't ever just take it and, and use it. But I mean, you have to make It. Your own voice, it's. It's not in how you speak and how you are. And I'm all about authenticity and things like that, but initially with these tools, when they came out, I was very concerned. I just thought, oh, gosh, you know, that's. That's one more thing that they don't have to use their brains for, like.
[00:31:31] Speaker E: Yeah. And I think, though, too, you know, the. The demise. You know, the demise of the book and the book industry has been touted for such a long time, and yet, you know, it's not. It's not going away.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: No, I don't believe that.
[00:31:42] Speaker E: And I think, you know, stories are the thing that connects us as human beings. So I. I can't imagine that will. You know, I hope there's never a time that books don't exist. The other thing is that AI can be incredibly inaccurate because I did a festival a couple of years ago, and I know that the kids who were doing my introduction had generated my bio from AI and. And it was so wrong.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: Oh, gosh.
[00:32:05] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: I don't think books will ever go. And what they're saying about AI is obviously, I think it'll push people to come out more. And now that we can, obviously with COVID being away and stuff, the more human connections and people will probably thrive for that as well, which is good.
[00:32:21] Speaker E: So very important.
[00:32:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. Well, for authors just starting out in the children's fiction genres, do you have any sort of key elements you think they should start focusing on? Build their career, you know, for sustainability?
[00:32:36] Speaker E: Yeah, look, I think one of the things that you can do to get yourself noticed is enter competitions, find reputable competitions to enter. So, I mean, I got my break because I won. I won a competition which was at the time called the Frustrated Writers Mentoring Competition, which was done by the Children's Book Council of New South Wales. But they now have a much fancier name for it. I think it's. It's the Charlotte. Charlotte something or other prize. It's. Anyway, it's. It's basically the same thing. But, you know, being able to get a foot in the door with publishers is really important these days. There's quite a lot of festivals like the. You know, there's a CYA Festival in Brisbane, there's the Kids and YA Festival in Sydney, and there's places where you can actually get to meet publishers and get to meet people in the business. And I always think, you know, those sorts of things didn't exist when I was starting out. So to have that opportunity is fantastic. I always say to people, be present, but don't be pushy. You know, I know how I, I know how desperate you can feel to, to get in front of a publisher, but please don't follow them to their, you know. One of my publishers in America, someone presented her with a, a manuscript at her mother's funeral.
[00:33:44] Speaker A: And you know, under the toilet story.
[00:33:47] Speaker E: Yeah, it's a bit like the under the toilet.
[00:33:49] Speaker D: Toilet stall, door.
[00:33:51] Speaker E: But this one was at her mother's funeral, so she was, you know, most unimpressed by that one.
[00:33:56] Speaker D: Um, so I think it's, you know.
[00:33:58] Speaker E: When you're starting out, you need to be, you know, be willing to be respectful.
[00:34:06] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:34:06] Speaker E: Be respectful, Be respectful. But also, you know, being a writer these days, it's not, you know, it's, it's different to what it would have been, you know, 30, 40, 50 years ago. You know, I was friends and I were talking about this the other day that, you know, Enid Blyton never had to do social media or like on TV or whatever, although.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: And her books are still selling.
[00:34:26] Speaker E: Exactly. But it's that thing now that, you know, if, if you want to be successful as a kids writer, you really need to be able to talk to kids as well. You need to be able to present to kids. You know, you, you've got to be able to do that media aspect of it because publishers are looking for people that they're going to invest in and who, who have that kind of, you know, box of tricks if you like.
[00:34:46] Speaker D: So, yeah, it's interesting.
[00:34:47] Speaker E: It's. You're not just a writer, you're kind of, you know, got to do the whole, the whole thing. And I know for some people that's very uncomfortable.
[00:34:54] Speaker A: It's fair enough though, because in like we're saying, and today you're fighting for attention and if you're not there on, on staff and that's where the kids are usually mostly, yeah, everybody.
[00:35:05] Speaker E: I mean, look, I'm not a TikTok, you know, I'm, I'm not really into TikTok. I don't want to be that sad middle aged woman on TikTok that kids. Oh, that's a really sad middle aged woman on Tik Tok. But I do understand though, it still has its place and you know, you have to sort of roll with the time.
[00:35:20] Speaker A: Well, there's, there is, there is like a. Because I was surprised, but I interviewed an author and because I'd heard as well, you know, TikTok's new. It's sort of kids demographic. But now she reckons there's, there's loads of writers on it and it's, yeah, all ages and seem to do quite well.
[00:35:34] Speaker E: So Definitely, I mean, BookTok is huge for YA books. Not so much for the younger market, but definitely in ya. That's something that, you know, they're, they're making people's careers and some of the books that are going gangbusters on there are books that are 10 years old and that, you know, some kids have gotten onto and then they turn. It goes viral and then all of a sudden you've got this huge phenomenon. So I guess, you know, you've got to be open to looking at a whole bunch of different avenues that you can promote yourself down and yeah, just, I guess, you know, be prepared to do things that might take you out of your comfort zone. And also, you know, if you're writing for kids, be authentic. Kids will see. I never set out to write a story that has a lesson. I set out to write stories, stories that are really fun and kids will love and that there will be something that resonates with them. And, you know, hopefully it's the character or it might be the mystery or whatever. And if they learn something from it, that's great. But I'm not beating them over the head with a lesson. You know, I'm not saying, well, you will learn to be a kind person because that's what Helen Miranda is.
[00:36:32] Speaker D: Or, you know, you will learn to.
[00:36:33] Speaker E: Be a problem solver because that's what Willa is, you know, so it's really important to be authentic because honestly, kids are. Kids are fantastic with feedback. They can be quite brutal.
They're interesting critics. Time.
[00:36:47] Speaker A: Oh, that's hilarious. Like with the picture book and stuff, do you find messages just organically coming to your work, you know, with Kevin?
[00:36:54] Speaker E: Yeah, look, I mean, I get, I get lovely feedback from, you know, from parents and kids and teachers and librarians and it's, you know, it's always nice to hear the. It's nice to hear the good stuff. Yeah, and it's great to hear from your audience. I mean, I love, I love doing school events because I get to, you know, be in front of kids and because I was a teacher for a long time, you know, as I say to, to the kids now, I say.
[00:37:15] Speaker D: You know, don't tell your teachers this.
[00:37:17] Speaker E: Because they'll say, do you miss being a teacher? And I'll say, well, don't tell your.
[00:37:20] Speaker D: Teachers this, but now I get to.
[00:37:21] Speaker E: Come to school and I still get to talk to all of you guys and that's really cool, but I don't have to do playground duty or write reports or deal with cranky parents.
And so you can see the teachers sit there and sort of roll their.
[00:37:32] Speaker D: Eyes at me and groan.
[00:37:33] Speaker E: But, you know, it's true. I say, you know, it's the best job in the world.
[00:37:36] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing. Well, you're doing so well at it. You have achieved tremendous success with traditional publishing. What do you see the advantages? I guess we've kind of touched on it, but, you know, challenges working with a publisher, say, opposed to exploring like the hybrid and self publishing routes, especially for the children's literature side.
[00:37:54] Speaker E: Look, I think the advantage of working with, you know, I work exclusively with Penguin Random House, who are the biggest publisher in the world. So, you know, you have this incredible team that you work with and I think the Australian PRH is the best, best in the world. They, they punch well above their weight. You know, you, you know that when you've got a book coming out that there's a marketing and publicity team that's going to help you with that and you know, they're going to help you set up events and all that sort of thing. So I think there's, you know, there's definitely advantages, but the, you know, the, the corollary of that too is that, you know, when you do stuff on your own, you actually make a lot more money out of the actual book sales because, you know, when you're a traditionally published author, you basically make 10% of the recommended research retail price of the book if it's sold at full price. And if you're writing a picture book, you're sharing that 50, 50 with your illustrator. So, you know, if you're someone who, who works, if you're, you're self publishing or you're working in, you know, in that different model, if you do something that goes really well, then, yeah, you, you stand to do, make good money out of it.
[00:38:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's, I guess you have.
[00:38:55] Speaker E: More freedom in, in a sense too.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a, it's getting more not so inclusive, I guess, like in the industry for people who are kind of doing their own thing and putting themselves out out there. And I think what's good about it too, like, I interviewed your colleague, Tim Harris. I didn't realize that he had said, you know, he started out self publishing before he got picked up as well. And sometimes just even getting. No one's going to see your work unless you Know, you, you can be a bit proactive and get it out there and then sometimes that can be people's path as well.
[00:39:23] Speaker E: So I think, I think that's very true because often, you know, I was saying it's hard to get your foot in the door. And if you like, for Tim it was, I think it was exploding endings that he did and you know, that got him noticed and so that help helped him to get his foot in the door with the publisher and you know, then his career has taken off from there. So I mean, Matthew Riley is an excellent example of that. You know, he, he's probably the most successful self published author in Australia who, you know, took that on and then the publisher took him on. So it's, it's definitely a pathway that you can, you know, make work.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's absolutely fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your time and expertise, Jacqueline. You've shared so much. It's been a fabulous conversation and I know our listeners have probably all heard of you, but where can they discover, you know, all your books on and offline?
[00:40:10] Speaker E: They can come and visit me on, on my
[email protected]. i'm also on Instagram and I'm on Facebook.
My Instagram handle is Jacqueline Harve H A R V E. Because when I was signing up for Twitter, Twitter wouldn't let me have that extra character and have the Y on Harvey and so I've just become jack1harv.
But that works for me. So. But yeah, it's, I mean I, I have a newsletter that I send out. Well, I, I used to be very good and send it out every month but at the moment I'm tending to do it more in seasons because life just, you know, is a bit busy. But I do have a newsletter and the newsletter often, you know, it will have the information about new books and events and there's always competition. There's something in it for the kids and something in it for, for adults. So if they want to keep up with what I'm doing, just go to my website and sign up for the newsletter.
[00:41:05] Speaker A: Oh, fantastic. Well, that's absolutely wonderful. Jacqueline. Thanks so much for your time.
[00:41:09] Speaker E: My pleasure. Thank you very much for having me, Joanne.
[00:41:18] Speaker C: So there you have it, folks. The truly incredible and all inspiring, beloved children's author, Jacqueline Harvey. Next time on the Hybrid Author podcast, we have Junior Bernard on roulette. Relentless pursuit. Overcoming adversary and turning survival into inspiration. Super unique and special interview with Junior. He was born and raised in Haiti and moved to the United States in 2010 following the devastating earthquake that claimed the lives of over 100,000 people. He earned his degree from Alvernia University in December 2014 on a full scholarship. His commitment to making a difference has earned him the prestigious Alvernias University's 4 under 40 achievement award, a testament to his philanthropic leadership and the impact he is igniting to boost economic growth in Haiti and inspire individuals from diverse backgrounds. Wonderful, wonderful, amazing individual is Junior and he shares a story of hope, courage and surviving against all odds to go on to live your dreams. And I just can't wait to share this episode with you. I've got such great guests. I always do. But yeah, really, really inspiring, amazing people. Coming up on the podcast. That's it from me, folks. I wish you well in your author adventure. Bye for now.
[00:42:30] Speaker B: That's the end for now, authors. I hope you're further forward in your author adventure after listening, and I hope.
[00:42:36] Speaker A: You'Ll listen next time.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: Remember to head on over to the Hybrid Author website at www.hybridauthor.com to get your free Author Pass. It's Bye for now.
