[00:00:00] Speaker A: This episode is brought to you by.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Atmosphere Press, a hybrid publisher helping authors publish books their readers will love. As this is the hybrid author podcast. I'm absolutely thrilled to have a hybrid publisher as a sponsor and atmosphere Press are a wonderful bunch of people made up of an international team of book professionals bringing books from raw manuscripts all the way through editorial proofreading, interior sign, cover design, publication, global distribution, and publicity. In true hybrid style, atmosphere Press authors keep all their book rights and are involved every step of the way. They have free book giveaways and free author publicity opportunities available right now, so head on over to atmospherepress.com links in the show notes. They are especially eager to publish new work from australian authors, so make sure to reach out to them for a manuscript review. And don't forget to make mention of the hybrid author podcast in your query or cover letter which will get you a special expedited review.
[00:00:59] Speaker C: Hello authors. I'm Joanne Morell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for authors. Thanks for joining me for the hybrid author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your book. You can get the show notes for.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Each episode and sign up for your.
[00:01:21] Speaker C: Free author pass over at the hybrid author website to discover your writing process, get tips on how to publish productively, and get comfortable promoting your books at ww dot hybridauthor.com au. Let's crack on with the episode.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Hello authors. I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to. The podcast in today's interview is a loner. So from me and I'm chatting about artificial intelligence and asking the question, will you or won't you make a point of trying it this year? And I share the fears and fours from author organizations such as the Australian Society of Authors, ASA, and the alliance of Independent Authors ally. I talk about my personal experiences and what I've discovered through the softwares I'm using and how they're using AI, and so much more.
So in my author adventure this week, I've been busy with another business development class, which was focused on marketing and risk factors of a business. This time, instead of business opportunities, I'm picking up lots of invaluable information which some have come across before, but I guess I've never really implemented into my book business. So I'm looking forward to taking the time to put what I've learned into practice in women's fiction news. I have received my manuscript back from my amazing editor, Zena Shaptar.
[00:02:50] Speaker A: And if you missed Zena's episode on the hybrid author podcast, it was a.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: Couple episodes back and she chats about.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Making money with emotion. So make sure you tune in to.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Listen to that, because Zena is fantastic, really knowledgeable.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: So my weekend's going to be spent working through Zena's edits and getting the manuscript into great shape.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: So if you tuned into last week's episode, or you're a regular listener of the podcast, you'll know that I planned on self publishing this work and launching it in March this year.
[00:03:18] Speaker A: And I've since seen a competition.
I've made the decision I'm going to put the work into the competition.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: It closes on the 31 January and the winner is announced in May. And the prize is pretty great. I think it's a traditional deal with.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Harlequin, which is imprint off of HarperCollins, and the prize is 10,000 grand advance as well as the publishing deal.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: Now, I usually have the way that I work, I've usually got a list.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Of self published books and a list of traditional books to work on.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: So book ideas that come to me.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: I kind of got a bit of an intuition that I think I'll self publish that, or I'll try and get that a traditional deal, just the way I seem to work. I don't know, it's maybe what suits the market better. So this has kind of come out of the blue, this competition, because I.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Had always intentionally, from last year, the.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Experiment was to write women's fiction and put them out rapid release. Now that was a flop for me last year. So apart from obviously getting one of the books finished, and this is the.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: Writer, the hairdresser and the nurse, it.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Was a story that was inspired by.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: A book cover I had originally seen. So I do have a cover for the work I have forked out for professional editing. I do have a plan in place.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: For how I was going to put this book out.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: And then this competition has come along.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: And I don't have to enter it at all.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: But I just feel like it's a really good opportunity. And I guess maybe that's because I've just been doing these business courses, learning.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: About business opportunities and business development and things like that.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: And this just feels like it might.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: Be a different story if it was being announced at the end of the year, but the fact it's only being announced if I'm going to launch in.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: March, April, May, a couple of months.
[00:04:58] Speaker A: Later, if nothing comes of it, then I can still launch it, and I have all that in place.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: It's not a problem.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: And, I don't know, this just feels.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: Right, so I'm going to do it. And I also feel like it's a testament to how far I've come in.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: My writing career that I'm not rushing to get this work out. I'm not rushing to self publish it, to make some money on it. The money will come.
I'm changing taxed for what's best for.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: Me at this time and making allowances for that.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: And I feel quite proud of myself, actually.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: Just this patience.
It's going to work for me.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: I think it's definitely what a lesson learned I was supposed to learn by becoming a writer.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: The art of patience.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: We all have to learn it as writers. I'm sure you are, too. And in the beginning, I definitely was.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Just desperate to get my work out there, get me out there, get this career started, because I feel like I.
[00:05:53] Speaker A: Came to this sort of in my.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Late 20s, early 30s, doing a lot of study in the writing genre, taking it seriously, and just realizing this is.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: Really what I want to do with my life. And I've really been all in for the last eight to ten years, and it's still just. I've come on so far. But a lot of it just feels like I haven't achieved a lot either.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: In terms of earning an income. But there's a lot of things at.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Play in my life that has stopped me from that. And I have earned an income for the last eight to ten years. As a writer, not as an author of books? Well, I have for the two nonfiction books I've got, but not a full time wage that I needed to. So just wanted to say there's no.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: Right or wrong way to do something. If you make a plan in your business and then see opportunities that arise which change your plans, then go for them.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: If that's what you want to do, go for it.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Don't worry about it. Nothing is set in stone. You don't have to stick to the plan you make. So if you like me, I probably.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Start to think of this year in October. Get in early. I'm not doing it in December. That's just the time frame for me. So even if you make a plan.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: Then plans and goals and things like.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: That, they need to be assessed and.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Reassessed for where you're at now in your life.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: I've got many book writing aspirations, and.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: For me, it's one of the main reasons why I'm hybrid I don't want and physically can't be across all of these book aspirations myself.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: I can't take on everything myself.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: I could, I suppose, but I don't.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Think I would be doing it a justice, and I probably physically can't. That came about when I have been.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Writing in the children's fiction field and.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Then put out a couple of nonfiction books, and I just struggled to have two pen names or to have to be in a million different places at once.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: That is how the hybrid author was originally born. It is a place for me to.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Have everything I do in the one place. It's the reason it exists. I keep everything under the one umbrella.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: The term hybrid covers all bases, if you ask me.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: It's not just one way of doing things. I'm not just Joanne Morel, non fiction author, Jay Z Morel, children's and YA author and soon to be pseudonym Zara.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Ellen for my women's fiction, which is.
[00:08:06] Speaker A: Actually my middle names, by the way. So I'm not sure if that's a pseudonym, if it's my real names, but perhaps I've gotten the way that I.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Do things, the genres, a little bit.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: Mixed up of what works for traditional.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: And what works for self published. I also feel like this traditional deal.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Competition thing looks quite good to me right now because of my current situation. So I am separated from my husband now.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: I'm a single mother. This is quite different from six months ago.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: And I'm definitely feeling like I don't want to do everything myself at the moment, because that's exactly what I'm doing in my life.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: Everything myself, raising my kids, earning an income, all of it. I just think where I'm at in life, having some tasks being done for.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Me is going to help me with my workload and my mental state, like, immensely. Having that extra help in one part of my author business will help, and.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: That'S been it from the start.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: But I always felt it was going to be the children's fiction, never really set out with women's fiction.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: But again, I'm writing women's fiction for.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Where I'm at in my life. Not the separation or anything like that, just that I am an almost 40 something woman. I'm currently 38 years old, and I.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Have been living as a woman for a long time. There's a lot that comes with that.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Marriage and children and relationships and things and yeah, life.
Not something you can write about in the children's fiction genre. So I felt like I had a.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Lot to say and I'm super proud.
[00:09:29] Speaker A: Of that women's fiction book. It's not me or my life, but I didn't have to hold back with.
[00:09:34] Speaker B: The language and the way that I.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: Said something or the emotions or anything like that.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: It was just go for your life.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: And I really think this is where my writing is at the moment and.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Needs to be for the older voice.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: That is because the next work I've.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: Made a start on, which is a.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Young adult fiction, and I'm also looking at a traditional competition for that one.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Now that was intended in my business.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: Plan for this year, and that's a bit later on down the track as well. But I've started character building for the YA, and this is going to be my main writing project for the next couple of months. I've got a deadline to finish the.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Plotting by the end of Jan, and.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Then begin writing in Feb for it.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: To be finished by end of March.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: Which is a competition deadline, and that.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: One gets announced in October. So again, these two projects are traditional.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: Deals that are a couple months away for one and, well, yeah, a few months away for one, and then quite.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Far, many months away for the other. So in that time, I still have two nonfiction books. But earning an income from a book business in that time needs to come from somewhere else, just a regular income from somewhere else, until these books can.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Earn me some money. And that's okay.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: That is okay. That is the way of it. It's not a rush for earning money because I know that they will.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: It's just about the work being the.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Best it can be and the best way to get my work out in the world.
Will you or won't you? AI. By now you should have heard of the term AI. It stands for artificial intelligence.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: It's talked about on the news, on.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: Social media, and most likely in whatever.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: Industry you are in.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: It is coming at us hard and fast. It is here and it is being used. You might be already using it and you are unaware. For the better part of last year, I listened in on the conversations taking place on social media, on podcasts and in the media. I listened closely and watched on in the writing community. It felt like it was a very complex term, AI, very scientific, and I don't particularly classify myself as a massive tech head. I am computer savvy, and I know a thing or two about certain software programs. I have listened to authors who are for AI chat on how they are using the tool to help them with their author business work faster and smarter than before. I have listened to the authors who have pitchforked against AI as they feel their livelihood and jobs and future of.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: The industry is at stake and in.
[00:11:58] Speaker B: Many instances their work has been taken.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: By AI and used, but they have.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: Not been compensated for it. Industry bodies have started discussing it in great length and holding panel sessions on the subject, and some authors are going to even greater lengths to begin to earn money out of teaching other authors and how to utilize it in their author business. So the Australian Society of Authors and I'll share the links in the show notes has a statement on their website that says artificial intelligence AI offers new opportunities and efficiencies, but also poses significant risks to the creative industries. It is imperative that the development and use of generative AI is carefully regulated. The rights of human creators must be safeguarded and their contributions to the development of AI technologies acknowledged and compensated strongly agree. Generative AI models are trained by ingesting huge corpuses of data known as training datasets or inputs, which include copyright works such as books, journals, essays and articles. The quality of the outputs is reliant on the quality of the training data sets or inputs. It is undisputed that the works in the training data sets have been copied without permission from or payment to creators. What's more, this technology risks displacing and diminishing the value of authors and illustrators labor.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: So I have as someone who is searching regularly for like a part time.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Work and casual work to support my.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: Family as a single person now while.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: I build up this book business further, I see these jobs advertise for data sets or data input people for AI now, they pay so low they pay ridiculous, like $20 an hour. This is obviously for people to input.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: Data into generative AI models, and what.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: They'Re saying is information is getting just plucked from places and people are just sticking it in there. And it might not be correct for a start, but they're also not checking with the creators or the people whose work it is. If they're allowed to use it, they're.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: Just shoving it in there. And I don't agree with that at all.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: I agree that we should be paid for the use of our work like a license. I suppose we know that generative AI will reduce supplementary sources of income and skills, building opportunities for authors and artists, such as copywriting and concepting art jobs. We are also concerned that inferior aigenerated content will flood the market, making discoverability harder for professional writers and lowering quality for consumers, given the very low earnings of authors average of $18,200 per year.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: And now I'm saying that lightly, because.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: I listen to a lot of other.
[00:14:40] Speaker A: Podcasts as well, and a lot of.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: Other sources that claim the way that.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: These figures of author earnings have been detected, they don't talk about direct sales.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: They're pretty mismatched.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: So take what people say with the average earning of an author with a pinch of salt. Talking about self published authors as well, the people who are selling direct and making direct sales.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Even a small disruption to income may mean the permanent loss of many professional writers, resulting in a contraction of authentic australian voices, of unique australian perspective, and a future skills gap we support the.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Development of they're basically saying there that it's going to be harder to sell your work or be found because of all the crap that AI is going to flood the market with, and people are just going to not bother because it's not going to be worth their time and they're worried about losing that.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: We support the development of new technology, but this development must be done ethically. The ASA position is that the laws and policies regulating AI should ensure authorization, fair compensation and transparency 100%. The ASA welcomes the australian government's recognition that AI must be regulated to ensure its safe and responsible development and use, and believes that industry must act transparently and be guided by ethical and human centered principles. So it talks about authorization and compensation. AI developers must be required to seek authorization from writers and illustrators, to use.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: Their works, to train generative AI, and.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: To fairly compensate the creators who grant such authorization, too, right?
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Again, it's about use of your work. If someone wants to use it, then.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: They need to pay you for it.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: It's your work.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Copyright owners earn a living from licensing their work and must share in the financial rewards derived from using their intellectual property.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: It is exomatic. I don't know if I'm saying that.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: Right, that any business relying on a third party's intellectual property to develop a new product or service must seek a license from the owner of that intellectual property. To ignore this is to ignore the cost of creating cultural material, treat authors intellectual work as a free public commodity, disregard copyright laws, and undercut the living wage of professional writers and artists. Market based solutions such as direct or collective licensing remain an effective mechanism to support new forms of exploitation. Licensing honours an author's right to exploit their works or refuse to do so, and ensures that authors are appropriately.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: It's the ASA has our best interests at heart.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: They fight for authors'rights, and they're just basically saying not that these tools are.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: Bad, but that they need to be.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: Used correctly and us as authors, need compensation for our work. So we're hoping that these laws, and this is what the ASA is fighting for, will come into play soon. Transparency and trustworthiness transparency is crucial in ensuring the safe, ethical and fair development of AI technologies. Generative AI companies must be required to.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: Be transparent about both inputs and output inputs.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: AI developers must be regarded to disclose copyright works used for AI training and for what purpose. There is global precedent for this. The Draft EU AI act, for instance, requires foundation model AI developers to publish summaries of copyright material used for AI training. This is important to avoid serious and well documented issues of bias, to appropriately acknowledge the use of original content, and to let creators know if their rights have been infringed. Outputs aigenerated products should be labeled as such. It is essential for educational, research and cultural institutions, as well as consumers to be able to easily identify aigenerated works. AI developers and users must be required to declare when a work is wholly.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: Or partially AI generated. I 100% agree with that also. So this is going to be, everyone knows it's not going away.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: It's too special, it's too new, it's too game changing, and it's here and it's already being used.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: So this is what this episode is all about. Will you or won't you use AI? But what they're saying here is that.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Whether you choose to work with AI, to write something or make something, you have to state that you can't just claim it as your own. And I just think it's just another.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Way, if people don't give a shit, for want of a better word, that.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: This was made by AI or this is whatever, they don't really care where it came from.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Fair enough.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: But some people do.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: It's like we have Amazon as a big retailer and some people are anti big retailers.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: They want to support local, and it might come to that. People want to support human authors directly.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: Rather than these technology made books, that type of thing. So yeah, it should definitely be cited if this has been generated with AI. I think where it's come from, that's what we cite when we write a book.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: We have the author, we have the publisher, we have the illustrator.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: How it was all made, I think definitely needs to be cited.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Authors play an irreplaceable role in our society, entertaining, challenging, educating, and inspiring countless readers, as well as fueling the broader creative industries. Human creativity and human knowledge is essential to a healthy, resilient, democratic and modern society. New technologies ought to serve our community and unlock new opportunities to our creative industries. If regulated appropriately, AI represents a chance to support australian authors, artists and publishers rather than displace our creators to the detriment of our nation's unique or cultural landscape.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: So that's a pretty powerful article, I feel. And like I said, I'll link it in the show notes. And I agree with loads of things that that article says as well. It's really just fighting for our rights.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Making sure that we're not being ripped.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Off here by people just taking our work. It's not been okay before in the Internet.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: It's not okay now. So the other article that I wanted.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: To touch on is from Ally, the.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Alliance of Independent Authors self publishing advice platform. So it's AI for authors.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: Guidelines for those of you who haven't heard of Joanna Penn, she runs the.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Creative Penn podcast and she is very.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: Known for being involved with AI and she is alliance of Independent authors, AI and enterprise advisor. So this article I'm assuming, has been.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: Written by Jo and it says after an open and assessed conversation, and just.
[00:20:53] Speaker A: To let you know, she is all.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: For these tools, she can see what.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Is good about them and she really shares a lot.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: So her article says, after an open.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: And assessed conversation with our members, advisors.
[00:21:04] Speaker B: And other interested parties, the alliance of Independent Authors has developed some practical and ethical guidelines to AI for authors, particular thanks to Joanna Penn, allies enterprise advisor Lawrence O'Brien of books go social, Amit Gupta of pseudorite and JD Lassia of.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Authors AI for their contributions. So hopefully I said everyone's name right there.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: The job of the independent author so.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: The alliance of Independent Authors is really a body of an organization that supports self published authors.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: I'm a member.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: If you listen to the podcast regularly, you know that I joined last year. I have been to an online self publishing conference and it's just a fantastic.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Group of people and just working for.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Fair rights for self published authors and weeding out all the baddies as well in the industry.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: So the job of the independent author is to write great words, publish great.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: Books, and bring those books to the.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: Readers who will value them most. AI provides tools that are useful in this work, but also raises many practical, ethical, and creative questions. In the ally Glossary, we define artificial intelligence as technology that replicates human behaviors and abilities. Conventionally seen as intelligent, and augmented intelligence as applications or tools that combine human and machine intelligence. Both are referred to as AI. When an author thinks about AI, it can evoke excitement in how these powerful new technologies can help us to bring out more books and better books or fear that the machines are going to displace writers and other creatives in a near future where AI gives readers what they need and want without us. Or a mix of both. Or a great big yawn. Given that AI can already generate or translate the first draft of a book faster than I can write this blog post, should we all pack up our word processors and go home? Short answer, no. In framing the questions we want to ask about AI, we need to distinguish between our feelings and opinions about the pros and cons of AI, the ethical issues, and the practical consideration of how AI tools can help us do our work more effectively and efficiently. AI and authors practical guidelines you are likely already using AI in your author publishing business, for example, Google search or Amazon algorithms. These are examples of what's known as narrow AI, offering specific expertise in a particular area. Google's search AI is better at doing research than you using a library card. Amazon's AI recommendation engine can suggest far more books to readers than the most knowledgeable bookseller. Tools based on narrow AI of interest to authors include advertising algorithms, reader analysis and engagement, search and sales engines, translation software, and speech to tech. More complex activities like writing novels or AI narration for audiobooks employ natural language processing, NLP, and natural language generation AI that creates words based on training algorithms on big data sets. Such tools are already being used in the generation of journalism on major newspapers and making inroads in creative works like novels and nonfiction books, screenplays, and poetry. Producing aigenerated text got easier with the arrival of GPT-3 generative pretrained transformer version.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: Three in June 21. In November 22, OpenAI launched the game.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Changing the game changing chat GBT generative pretrained transformer built on top of OpenAI's GPT-3 five and GPT 40, a chinese language model ten times bigger than GPT-3 has also launched, as well as an open source language model, eluthera AI, all.
[00:24:39] Speaker A: Of which will accelerate tool development and language processing.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: There are a lot of new tools being built on various AI models, with new ones popping up every day. In other words, this is only the beginning. The consequences are virtuous, says the New Yorker in a recent article. The computers are getting better at writing whatever field you are in. If it uses language, it is about to be transformed. The changes that are coming are fundamental to every method of speaking and writing that presently exists. On the practical side, ally Enterprise and AI advisor Joanna Penn suggests that the most important questions for a working indie.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: Author to ask about AI right now.
[00:25:11] Speaker B: Include which AI tools do I want.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: To implement in my writing and publishing?
[00:25:15] Speaker B: Which of my writing and publishing challenges can be met by AI solutions? Where do I draw my personal, creative, commercial and ethical boundaries with AI?
[00:25:23] Speaker A: So it was a good article that has a lot more parts to it. And again, I'll link in the show notes so you can go on and.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Read it in further detail. So will you or won't you use AI? My experiences my first positive experience with AI was through my podcast hosting platform, castos, and that's castos, to which I am affiliate.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: So I will put a link in the show notes. If you are looking for a hosting.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: Platform, couldn't recommend castos more. But basically through castos, I have an.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: AI assistant now which it's not just me, it's on the platform for everyone who uses castos.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: The AI assistant generates transcripts of my podcast episodes.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Now, this is inevitably, transcribing is a job. It was a job before, and I know this to be a fact, as this is one of the reasons I don't do transcripts for my episodes.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Having to pay someone to transcribe my podcast at a I don't have the.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: Money, I just don't because you pay for these platforms, these hosting things, it's just another expense. So I simply don't have the funds.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: To pay someone to do it. I considered doing it myself in the.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Past, but reaching hundreds of episodes, I was like, heck, this will take me forever. So once this tool was implemented into castos and I clicked the button that said it would be automatically transcribed, I.
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Think it's been since the 100th episode.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: 101 my episodes have been transcribed, no extra charge. This means that my podcast episode can.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: Be consumed by individuals who are hearing impaired. They can now read my content online.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Or yeah, via the platform.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: It can be enjoyed by others who prefer to consume content this way, in written word form.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: This is an absolute benefit of using AI, and I did sort of think about the person whose job this was and what that meant for them. But the way I see it is.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: They can implement this too into their business to work harder and faster. They can charge a cheaper rate service because they're using AI tools, but they're still doing the work for the human that the human doesn't have time to do themselves. For me to sit and transcribe an episode, even though it might not take long now with these AI tools, it's still another thing. I'm a one woman band, and it's.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: Just hard to keep up with lots of things. So you could still pay a small price to someone if you can afford it for them to do this job for you.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: Using these tools doesn't have to make that person obsolete in the work that.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: They do by any means.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: They could offer a human only service.
[00:27:46] Speaker A: At a higher price because it will.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: Take them longer to transcribe and an AI service.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Or, you know, there's been free software.
[00:27:53] Speaker B: Tools like this well before this AI.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: Assistant arrived, which was what I was going to know. You can utilize dictation voice software through.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: Microsoft Word, and that can come out and you've still got to go through.
[00:28:07] Speaker A: It and make sure it checks and things like that.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: So there's still that human element of the editorial phase. I also use canva.
[00:28:12] Speaker A: I'm sure many of you do too.
[00:28:14] Speaker B: To create graphics for social media and this podcast and resumes and all sorts of stuff. I still use a human graphic designer.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: For my front covers, have done for my nonfiction, but I'm also probably in the future we'll be looking at different.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Ways of doing things, too.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: As I said, I'm a hybrid author. That means I'll utilize not just one way of doing things. I'm open to many different ways.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: So designers could.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: A designer could showcase custom made designs that they've made from themselves, but they.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Could also incorporate AI designs if they wanted to have a play around. I just think that these tools are.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: About working with rather than making humans feel obsolete or their jobs and businesses.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: Are adopting these tools into their best.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Practices because they know they could probably.
[00:28:58] Speaker B: See the benefits of them. But they also know if they don't.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: They'Re going to get left behind because they're not going to be able to.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Keep up with the fastness of it. So my question to you is, review the programs you use and actually Google.
[00:29:10] Speaker A: What and how they incorporate AI.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: What software do you use? You'll actually find most of these apps.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: Are powered by AI tools. So if you use Microsoft Word, Excel.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: I use scrivener, they're powered by AI.
[00:29:23] Speaker A: They're already using AI tools, AI counterparts or apps in their software.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: So will you or won't you use AI in your writing?
[00:29:34] Speaker A: So I thought it was time after.
[00:29:35] Speaker B: I said, I've made this episode because.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: I have very much paid attention to.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: The conversations taking place in the last year. Haven't got involved.
[00:29:43] Speaker A: I've just sort of been watching from either side, but I thought it's definitely time to play around with these AI.
[00:29:48] Speaker B: Tools and see for myself. So I started with Google's AI Bard, B-A-R-D. If you just type in Google Bard.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: This is what will come up. It's like a chat box thing, like.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: A web page, but it's a chat.
[00:30:00] Speaker A: Bot, like you're asking questions. So I asked some questions to do.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: With writing mainly on emotions to see what it came up with. So I asked what are the human.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Body'S reactions to emotional responses of feeling sad?
[00:30:15] Speaker B: And it gave some very simple answers, which were all pretty obvious.
[00:30:20] Speaker A: And I wasn't particularly blown away with.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: Any of the responses I received from.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: Google Bard in any of the searches I made. To be honest, I thought it was quite poor, so that didn't really freak me out or anything.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Then I tried the very popular chat GBT, and that was much more advanced. It gave much more detailed, long lists of emotions. But the same as Google Bard, there is no like the Internet when you.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Put in the search bar and loads of sites come up that cite the author where this information has came from in AI. In these AI chat box bots, the generative AI, it does not cite anything at all from where it's taking the information or where it's got it from. So this is what all these articles are talking the ASA are talking about.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Before ethical behavior and compensation for where these data places are getting their information for authors. So I actually asked it my name.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: My books, and the hybrid author just to see what came up. But it was the same response for them all. So obviously there's no information in generative AI about me or my books, yet, it just says and the response I.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: Got was, as of my last knowledge update in January 2022, this is chat.
[00:31:31] Speaker A: GBT, and it's probably the older version. It's not. Number four, what you have to pay for.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: This is the free ones as of.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: My last knowledge update in January 2022, don't have specific information about a book titled author fears and how to overcome.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: Them by Joanne Morrell it's possible that.
[00:31:44] Speaker A: This book was published or became known after my last update, or it might be associated with a niche or local audience.
[00:31:50] Speaker B: To get the most accurate and up.
[00:31:51] Speaker A: To date information about the book and.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: Its author, I recommend checking online bookstores, the author's official website, or other reputable sources that provide information about literary works. Additionally, if Joanne Morell is an author.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: Or expert in a specific field, exploring.
[00:32:04] Speaker B: Relevant community communities, forums, or social media.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: Platforms might provide more insights into her work and any publication she may have. So that was its response for all that. If it doesn't know something, that was its response. I asked it to write sales copy for my women's fiction book, because I know a lot of people are sort of using it for these types of jobs that they feel they don't have.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: The time to do.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: But I've done this a couple of.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: Times, and I've noticed it loves to.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: With women's fiction, it loves to use the word sisterhood. And again, maybe, perhaps it was super.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: Generic because of my search of what.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: I said, write a sales copy. Write sales copy for women's fiction book about friendship or something like that. But again, I wasn't truly blown away.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: By what it was saying. So I don't see how people would.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: Just copy and paste that. I really didn't think it was that great. So if authors are typing searches in like that, and then copying and pasting exactly what that AI has presented, whether.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: You edit it or not, I just.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: Feel like it's the same as the Internet. You can't just copy and paste something and pass it off as your own.
That's plagiarism, if you ask me. So AI is inevitably, no doubt the.
[00:33:20] Speaker B: Internet of the future, where we type.
[00:33:22] Speaker A: Our queries into search engines or search bars. We will soon begin to ask AI chatbots directly for information. And that's okay.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: Much like the Internet is a wealth of knowledge, these AI tools responses should not be plagiarized, and information from where it's originally sourced should be named and where required, the author and creator should be getting compensated. Like today's laws.
[00:33:45] Speaker A: That's what should be going on. No one should be copying and pasting.
[00:33:47] Speaker B: Anything written by this thing. Because as far as I'm concerned, just.
[00:33:51] Speaker A: Because you fluff it up with a.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Few bits of editing, it's not your own words.
You're stealing someone else's work, if you ask me.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: However, using it for learning, I would.
[00:34:02] Speaker B: Encourage, I think, when it gets better.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: So the way that I'm looking at.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: AI, it's like a calculator. You should try and work out the problem first yourself before checking it on the calculator to see if it's right or you've missed anything, which could make your problem, your answers, better.
[00:34:20] Speaker A: So, meaning, I'm going to think about the emotional responses of my characters in my work.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: When they're mad or they're sad, and how they react, their facial expressions, their.
[00:34:29] Speaker A: Body, the way that they react to.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: These human emotions before looking up on the computer. Now, I would even look that up on the Internet.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: How does the body react when it's sad? Just to see all the options to.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: Make sure, I've incorporated a few different.
[00:34:44] Speaker A: Ones, because I definitely noticed in my women's fiction as well sometimes because it's quite a big work and the character is often having a mad or a.
[00:34:53] Speaker B: Sad response to something, can't have them having the same mad or sad response all the time. They can't just be crying all the.
[00:34:59] Speaker A: Time or pumping their fists all the time.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: There's other ways that you can show.
[00:35:04] Speaker A: Emotions, and I definitely think of these things myself, but making sure that there's.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: A broad range as well is a good idea.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: Just to check that you've not missed anything blatant. So I've heard that you can create.
[00:35:18] Speaker B: Covers and images with AI tools.
[00:35:20] Speaker A: I haven't done that. I haven't played around with it yet, or artwork or anything like that. That's not really where I'm at or looking to do at this point. But again, I think when it comes down to that, designers, and as I've said before, they could maybe play around.
[00:35:33] Speaker B: Themselves if they want to, but still.
[00:35:34] Speaker A: Create their own works, but they could have like an AI version or something.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: Maybe to coincide with it if they're looking for ways to incorporate it. So anyway, still the point of I don't understand how people are creating books with this thing.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: So I typed into Chat GBT, write.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: A thousand word book on author fears.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: To see how it creates something like that. And I gulped it produced the work in like couple seconds. And it had an introduction and a title which was called Ink and Anxiety.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: Navigating the depths of author fears for authors.
[00:36:07] Speaker A: And it actually wasn't bad.
It wasn't how I felt, with the responses being quite generic or whatever. I didn't actually think this was too bad. It laid it out like so it had the introduction and it had chapters 1234, all the way down to whatever, and then an ending. And it had just laid out the fears and written a small paragraph about them. So I'll read one.
[00:36:32] Speaker B: Chapter three fear of criticism. The fear of criticism is a universal apprehension that authors share. The vulnerability of putting one's thoughts and creations on display makes the prospect of.
[00:36:42] Speaker A: Negative feedback a daunting prospect.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: This chapter explores the nature of criticism, distinguishing between constructive feedback and destructive criticisms.
[00:36:50] Speaker A: And offers guidance on developing resilience in.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: The face of external opinions. So as you can hear, it sounds smart, but the voice is pretty stale.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: And kind of third person and lack of like.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: It's informative, but it's not personal.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: And I think that voice, and that's what other Joanna Penn and other platforms.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: Talk about, voice, your voice, your human voice.
[00:37:12] Speaker A: Nobody's going to replace that so you don't have to. I wouldn't stress about these tools or anything like that.
How people might use it is they could type that in, write a 70,000 word book or whatever, then they go through and they'll have to edit it.
[00:37:27] Speaker B: All and perhaps write some bits in their voice and then they'll slap it up there.
[00:37:31] Speaker A: But again, making everyone aware that it was used by these tools is pretty important as well. But if that's the way someone wants.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: To work, then go ahead. It doesn't feel right to me.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: And that's again where ethicalness will come into it and so forth. As these tools continue and they're incorporated.
[00:37:49] Speaker B: More and we see the impact and.
[00:37:51] Speaker A: The outcome that they have on all.
[00:37:52] Speaker B: The industries, because it's not just writing, it's taking over everywhere. So in conclusion, people will definitely use.
[00:37:59] Speaker A: This, use AI to copy and paste and create work. And I hope we'll all be able.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: To place laws on these types of behaviors.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: Much like the Internet when it came into play. And whoever has been to university knows, like whenever you have to do an assignment, you've got to put it through. I can't remember what it was, I put it in, it was like a.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: Portal and that detected plagiarism.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: Basically, if you just copied and pasted.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: Stuff off the Internet and it wasn't your own work, things like that will hopefully emerge somehow for aigenerative stuff, because.
[00:38:31] Speaker A: Like I said, it's important. There is another link to an article, turnitin.com, and it talks about the historical.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: Moments that shaped plagiarism. I'll just read you one little section.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: From that and I'll link to it in the show notes.
[00:38:47] Speaker B: New technologies, new challenges for the next 150 years, plagiarism remained a topic of contention, in particular in academic and professional environments. But rude remain a laboratorous task. In an analog world, finding and copying work was still a challenge. However, with the rise of computing beginning in the growing through the world was transitioning from analog to digital and taking plagiarism with it. To that end, it was the invention of copy and paste in the mid seventy s that may have had the largest impact. No longer did an individual have to copy work by hand, all they had to do was copy and paste the.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: Work into a new document.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: As home Internet service providers began to take off in the 90s, potential plagiarists suddenly had access to a virtually unlimited amount of content to pull from. As the Internet exploded, growing from 23 500 websites in 1995 to an estimated 17 million in 2000. The amount of information available grew along with it. This became an especially large problem in academia, where students quickly learned that they could avoid writing papers if they simply.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: Copied what they needed off the Internet.
[00:39:51] Speaker B: Though plagiarism had long been against most schools ethics codes, detecting it was a challenge. In 2000, turnitin.com was launched. Though the technology was originally designed to detect frat file plagiarism, a preinternet plagiarism technique that involves storing copies of physical essays for use. In later years, it was adapted to deal with Internet plagiarism as well. In this way, online use became something of a double edged sword for plagiarism. While technology made plagiarism easier, it also made plagiarism detection easier. The same tools that help students plagiarize help their instructors spot it.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I think something will come be made for AI for that while they're working all out. But you need to figure out how you want to use it, how you.
[00:40:33] Speaker B: Can best use it to serve your author business or not at all, and keep doing what you're doing. But know in one way or another whether you will or you won't consciously use AI tools. You shouldn't fear them, but I encourage you to go and see for yourself. There's so much more of these tools.
[00:40:48] Speaker A: I have a long way to go.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: With learning and playing around with them.
[00:40:52] Speaker A: Like what they can do.
[00:40:54] Speaker B: But for the most part, I'm going to start my AI use by just generally asking it questions to help aid my work to make it better, but only after I've given what I need to know some thought and use it.
[00:41:09] Speaker A: Rather as a checker for it if there are more options I haven't utilized.
[00:41:13] Speaker B: So my concern over these tools is like a use it or lose it type of concern. If this tool can do everything for us and we allow it to, then what happens to our creative brain? We are no longer using it organically to work and solve through the problems that arise in our creative works. Going back to the calculator analogy that.
[00:41:32] Speaker A: I came up with, the AI comes.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: Along and we use it to help.
[00:41:36] Speaker A: Us with our math problems, but we don't do it.
[00:41:39] Speaker B: We don't let it do all the problems for us.
[00:41:42] Speaker A: If we do that, we have learned.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: Nothing ourselves and will inevitably grow dumber. So to finish up, make a list of all the software you use and start googling their names and how they use AI so you can see how you are already using AI tools through the apps you use to create your books and run your book business.
[00:41:59] Speaker A: Because I guarantee you, without you even.
[00:42:00] Speaker B: Realizing it, you are canva. For example, scrivener. Play around with chat, GBT and other AI toolbots to see what they can do and so you can see what.
[00:42:12] Speaker A: All the fuss is about and get.
[00:42:13] Speaker B: More understanding for yourself. Do your own research. Don't listen to everybody else, apply it to your books and your book business. And best of all, don't get caught.
[00:42:22] Speaker A: Up in one sided conversations of one.
[00:42:24] Speaker B: Way of doing things, do you? And what best works best for you.
[00:42:28] Speaker A: And your author career.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: As long as you stay true and ethical to best author practices. For this is definitely the future, let's use it wisely.
[00:42:44] Speaker A: So there you have it folks, the long chat on generative AI. And will you or won't you use.
[00:42:52] Speaker B: It in your author business? I had wanted to make an episode.
[00:42:55] Speaker A: On this just because it's exploded in.
[00:42:57] Speaker B: Conversations last year and as I said.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: I've been watching from afar and then wanting to have my own take on.
[00:43:03] Speaker B: It, basically, and I get the fours.
[00:43:05] Speaker A: For and against, and I just think you have to make your own call on it, your own decision, and don't judge others. If that's what they want to do, that's up to them.
[00:43:14] Speaker B: How they go about it next time on the hybrid Author podcast, we have.
[00:43:18] Speaker A: Jody J. Sperling back again, chatting to.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: Us on the seven figure marketing mindset for novelists. I wish you well in your author adventure this next week. That's it for me.
[00:43:29] Speaker A: Bye for now.
[00:43:30] Speaker C: That's the end for now, authors. I hope you are further forward in your author adventure after listening. And I hope you'll listen next time. Remember to head on over to the hybrid author
[email protected] dot au to get your free author pass. It's bye for now.
