[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello authors.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: I'm Joanne Morel, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for authors. Thanks for joining me for the hybrid author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you board your career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your books. You can get the show notes for each episode and sign up for your free author pass over at the hybrid author website to discover your writing process, get tips on how to publish productively and get comfortable promoting your books at www.hybridauthor.com dot au. Let's crack on with the episode.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Hello authors.
I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to. The podcast in today's interview is with children's author and autistic ADHD or psychologist Chelsea Luker, and we chat using your experiences to connect with your audience, articulating your experiences into a book to help others. Chelsea's writing, publishing advice, her book, and much more.
So in my other adventure this week, I'm back from Lancelin. We had a lovely week away with my kids and my mate and her kids and it's only an hour and a half up the road from where we live. And yeah, I can't believe I've never gone up there before. It just is. It's such a gorgeous landscape. People go there for the sand dunes and so rather like, I grew up in Scotland and we did sledding in the snow. This was like sort of sledding slash snowboard sandboarding with boards on big sand dunes. And it was really cool. They had quads and buggies and things like that, which I would probably like to go back without the kids and do. But it was really, really fun. And I did actually go up to one of the biggest sand dunes and slide down. I wish I hadn't put my hands in the sand. It sort of stopped me and just flew for my life. But my mate kind of, she kind of did that and then sort of fell off the end and rolled a couple of times and she had sun cream on her face when she sat up, half her face was like caked in sand and it was just the funniest thing. She was laughing as well. And yeah, great little caravan, you know, camping place that we stayed at right on the beach.
Gorgeous weather we had, which was lovely, good facilities for the kids, swimming pool, all that sort of stuff, jumping pillow, which all the caravan places here have. And it was nice just to relax. I was super proud of myself, setting up a tent and setting up gazebos and, you know, unpacking and packing the car and doing all that stuff myself. That's been the first for me in terms of like putting a tent together and it actually staying and yeah, we just all absolutely had a ball and it was so relaxing. We were gone for like four nights and it actually felt like I was gone for a week. But packing down was not as fun as obviously, you know, setting up and just absolutely tuned off and relaxed and yeah, we just, we just had an absolute ball. So back into it this week. Kids are back, school, school holidays are finished. And yeah, I've very much come back to a very busy week of twelve podcast interviews, batching, which is, was crazy, but I managed to do it. And I can only sum it up as feeling like I have been around the world without leaving the corner of my bedroom. And I have spoken to some absolutely amazing guests that future guests that I'll be sharing their episodes in the coming months and all from different walks of life. Some people have lived a thousand lives and honestly I just, it absolutely blows away, blows me away. The caliber of the people I've spoken to and the stories that they're sharing and the messages and the purpose behind them. And it's just so, so inspiring. And I got so much out of it as usual, which I do from the podcast and also doing so many. It just means that I don't have to do another sort of big recording like that until I'm not going to be doing podcasting now interviews until July because I have about three months worth. So yeah, that's always a bonus. That means I can focus on the writing because been a very big podcast week. So my ya is deadline is due for the 30 April to get some chapters across to a traditional publisher that is going to be critiqued at a writer's retreat that I'm going to in June. And yeah, so now my focus is on this book and solely this book. So very excited to be getting back into that. I have obviously not been looking at that for about two weeks now. Well yeah, around about two weeks. So I'm going to have to immerse myself back into that world and get back at familiar with the characters and the story and just go for my life. I'd like to say thank you to Jeanette Stamponi for buying me a coffee. You rock, lady. Thank you for being such an avid listener of the show. And way back in the beginning I interviewed Jeanette on landing a traditional publishing deal. I'm pretty sure that was the episode and she's a fellow squibbie member. So thank you Jeanette. I'm glad that you're enjoying listening and I hope you're getting much out of it.
So it's been a busy old time. I would imagine most writerly parents parents with children are enjoying either getting back to their writing craft now the kids are all back at school, or however, whatever is going on in your life, let's hope it's a busy time with writing or creating or, you know, finding inspiration with with other people. I've got my friend's book launch this Sunday. Shout out Laura Holloway and of her picture book peek a boo Lottie. And I'm also attending a squibbie event about stagecraft with Christy Byrne, children's author. So I'll no doubt share all about that next week.
So if you love the podcast or any of the episodes has helped you further in your author career, you can now pay it forward by buying me a coffee
[email protected] the hybridauthor let's all support each other.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: Chelsea Lucar is an autistic ADHD or psychologist and is the proud owner of Connect us psychology with a deep rooted commitment to the autistic ADHD community. Chelsea dedicates her professional life to supporting autistic ADHD individuals across the lifespan. Chelsea is also a parent to two young, neurodivergent children. Drawing from her lived and clinical experience, Chelsea wrote her middle grade title with seven short stories, square me round world, to provide a deep dive into the lives of minds of autistic and ADHD individuals with the hope that this would contribute to the journey toward an inclusive world where every glittering part of every individual is celebrated and embraced. Welcome to the hybrid Author podcast, Chelsea.
[00:07:02] Speaker D: Thank you so much for having me. Oh, you're welcome.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: We're so thrilled to have you. What an absolute gorgeous bio with a huge message. But can you tell us, you know, how's this all come to be packaged in the writing and publishing world?
[00:07:17] Speaker D: Holy moly. Well, it's a bit of a fun story. I like that it has a fun story because I think that that goes very well with my brain. So it was under probably about nine months ago that I was down in Melbourne for a conference and I had been talking to some other autistic ADHD psychologists online, but I hadn't actually met them in person. So when I went down to the conference, it was the first time I met them in person. So we had this beautiful day and everything just felt so lovely and so easy and it was just such a nice experience. So I went back to my hotel and, you know, went to bed and then woke up at midnight, as you do, and decided I was going to write a book.
And so I started writing chapter two, which is called finding your flock. I started writing that on the notes application of my mobile phone at midnight in Melbourne hotel room. And I proceeded to write many of the other chapters on the notes application of my mobile phone over the next couple of months, usually in the middle of the night. And the inspiration sort of struck me. And so I decided, you know, I'd share these stories with a couple of friends, and they all said, oh, these are really great. You should actually, you know, think about publishing them or, you know, sharing them with people. And I, you know, I'm a psychologist. I never considered myself to be an author. And so, you know, I kind of brushed off those comments for a while until I very impulsively decided that, yes, I was going to publish them into a book, and I was going to do it well with no knowledge of how to publish a book. So once I made that decision, it was a very quick slope into actually publishing a book. And so it was only at that point that it actually came off my phone and was begrudgingly transferred onto my computer because I was told that editors wouldn't accept text messages as an appropriately written book. So it was a very accidental start, but I couldn't be happier with the end result.
And so once I really got into the sort of publishing part of it, then I obviously, you know, linked in with a lot of really, you know, talented individuals who helped me. You know, I had the most amazing illustrator, Eliza Fricker, who, again, I decided I would approach with the thought that she would probably say no, but thankfully, she said yes. Got an amazing book designer, you know, and cover designer in Joe Hunt, and, you know, just gathered a cast of really amazing supporting people to help me on my way. And at the end of it, we came out with a book. So apparently something went right along.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: It sounds like everything went right. A whole lot did. That's amazing. And you can just tell the, you know, the inspiration, how it struck you in the night and how excited you were and the story that was going to come out and how it all come together. That's incredible.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: I love that story.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: So huge. Congrats.
[00:10:26] Speaker D: I love that. It's a good story. Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: The good story behind the good story.
[00:10:32] Speaker D: Yeah, perfect.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's amazing.
[00:10:35] Speaker C: Well, you know, we're going to touch.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: On the book as well, but today's topic is on using your experiences to connect with your audience, which is something that you're doing. I mean, can you tell us, like, how you feel you've incorporated all of your experiences because they all seem to come together, I guess, to connect with your audience, you know, through your personal diagnoses and, you know, your psychology background and the book and everything. How is it all coming together? Are you reaching people and.
[00:11:05] Speaker D: Yeah, look, I think the stars aligned quite nicely with this one. I think I always, I always say quite often when I'm presenting training and things like that, that I have the trifecta. I say, you know, I am an autistic ADHD myself, and I'm a parent of neurodivergent kiddos. And I've also been supporting autistic and ADHD, as in my job, for quite a number of years now. So I'm really fortunate in that I have the trifecta there. I also happen to have autism and ADHD quite high on my interest list. So that's also quite handy when you're trying to, you know, learn about all of these things and really, you know, embrace all of the nuance and all of the different perspectives that goes through. And so, you know, the, the idea for the book actually started in terms of, I wanted there to be fictional representation of experiences that some autistic and Adhders can go through, you know, when they're living this life where they don't feel like they quite fit in anywhere. So that was the initial driver. And then, you know, so from that, I sort of reflected on, you know, what are some of the common experiences? What are some of the experiences I've been through? You know, what are some of the experiences that I've seen my kiddos go through? What are some of the experiences that I've seen clients go through? And, you know, what are the different ways that people have gone through these experiences? And then what might people that have gone through these experiences, what might they want to know or what might make them feel safe or feel connected or feel understood? So, you know, I was really fortunate that, obviously, I had a very large pool of data to draw from, and I just really wanted to make sure that, you know, that people were able to pick up the book and, and connect with something from the book. So, you know, every individual has their own experiences and their own, you know, interpretations of those experiences. So I obviously didn't have the, you know, the idea that everyone was going to be able to relate to everything within my book. But I thought, you know, if I can bring enough into it that people can relate to something and that can. They can feel some form of connection, then, you know, hopefully my goal of making sure people feel less alone and people feel like they understand why there's a reason that they don't fit in very well to our very round world.
[00:13:31] Speaker C: Yeah, no, absolutely. Well said.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: And you are exactly what you said.
[00:13:35] Speaker C: The trifecta.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: They are like to have a book that you can actually include every perspective in that's going to connect with people from that level. The parent, the actual individual, and from the clinical is very good.
[00:13:49] Speaker C: There.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Was there a reason that you've chosen to do middle grade? Is it because, you know, adult diagnoses are. Are rare and definitely not rare.
[00:13:59] Speaker D: Definitely not rare at all. The reason I went for middle grade is that, you know, there's starting to be some really phenomenal books out there for the younger kiddos. And there, you know, there are some really great books coming out from, you know, adult autistic individuals themselves sharing their own life stories and things like that. There's not as much for the kind of in between stage. And so I felt that that was kind of an area where, you know, the stories, they don't have adult themes, so they still appeal to younger kiddos. I've read them to my kiddos and they, you know, they really enjoyed them, but I've also had adults read them. And, you know, most of my initial readers were adults who actually said, you know what? These stories really spoke to me and they really spoke to my inner, inner child. And really, you know, were quite powerful for me to read. So I think that the stories have a few different layers that, you know, kiddos might think, well, they're really fun stories, but also, hey, that sounds kind of like me. You know, once kiddos get a bit older, they might be able to really connect with some of those concepts. And then, you know, for adults who are able to access that information, they might be able to really see themselves, you know, their younger selves and what they may have experienced growing up.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:15:17] Speaker D: Yeah. So I just wanted to make sure that I was, you know, covering meeting as many needs as I could within. Within the one thing, but also really because, you know, adult identification is becoming more and more prevalent. But, you know, the statistics are quite shocking in that, you know, the most recent study done in Australia showed that 80% of autistic women over the age of 18 have not been, have not been identified as being autistic. And so I also wanted something that perhaps parents would be reading to their children and might be able to, you know, gain some sense of understanding for themselves at the same time.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:01] Speaker D: Try to meet all of the things at once. Really.
[00:16:04] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:16:04] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: It sounds like you've nailed it and absolutely. It is definitely something I'm hearing more of. More of individuals that I know, women who have had late diagnoses for ADHD and haven't heard so much for autism. But yeah, it's definitely a book, obviously for all the ages there. And, yeah, I just think it's amazing and it sounds so powerful as well. Books and they can connection that you can make with other people. I mean, for me, that's what it's all about. Do you have advice for individuals who they want to possibly do something like yourself? Obviously, maybe not along the autistic and adhd line, but they want to articulate certain experiences that they've had into the form of a book to help others, like how you have gone about it. But some people can find it a bit hard with self expression. Is there any advice you want to share about how you've gone about doing that? Obviously, just. Has it just been writing from your experiences, like writing from the heart? And obviously you've had the different perspectives or have you actually tackled it strategically somehow or.
[00:17:07] Speaker D: Well, as strategically as you can writing on your notes app of your mobile phone?
I think that gives a clear reflection of the strategy involved, I think, and I guess that would really be reflective of my first point is just dive in. I think that's. That was one of my strengths in approaching this, is that I just dove in without really thinking much through the entire journey. I think when you think through the entire journey, it can get really overwhelming. You know, if you allow yourself to just dive in without putting those expectations on yourself, I find that you're able to be a lot freer in terms of, you know, just seeing what works and seeing what comes out. And, you know, you. You probably will surprise yourself. I think, you know, my. One of my biggest strategies in, you know, and this is in life in general is outsource. So, you know, I'm big on outsourcing anything. That is not a strength for me. If I can outsource it, I will outsource it. It's about focusing my. My efforts on my strengths and really working and leaning into the things that I enjoy and that I'm good at. And the other stuff that I, you know, that I might find tricky or I might not enjoy bringing someone on board who, you know, that's their wheelhouse and that's what they're, you know, they're good at and they're passionate about. And I just find have found that so helpful in this process is really being able to bring on board those other people who can bring their own skills into the project. I really think, as well, you know, being creative and being able to think outside the box. I think that they're really great strengths to draw on, you know, in these areas is thinking, you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, maybe exactly the way that you thought it was going to be. It can be a little bit different. It can be presented in a different way, and it might just be the messaging that comes out, you know, in a different way than you're expecting.
So, yeah, they would be my thoughts in terms of, firstly, just dive in, see what comes out, and then, yeah, really leaning into your strengths, outsourcing the areas that are not super strengths, and then just seeing what. Seeing what comes out. And I reckon most people will surprise themselves.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's really sound advice there. And it's great to work with other people because, you know, their sort of vision can be completely different from anything you could have ever imagined. And then you end up with, like, a product that is just something that you never imagined, which is amazing.
[00:19:38] Speaker D: 100%. 100%. I think, you know, I really saw that in my illustrator, so I actually have, it's a thing called aphantasia. So I actually can't see anything in my head when I'm visualizing things. And so, you know, that makes kind of thinking what your illustrations are going to look like rather tricky. You know, I handed over complete creative control, and she absolutely nailed it. You know, I couldn't have imagined any other. Once I saw her illustrations, I couldn't imagine anything else. Being able to form those relationships with people and being able to bring other people on board and not feeling like you have to fly so low, you know, I've just found that the most rewarding part of the journey.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing.
It truly is. And I think exactly what you said about just do and see what comes of it. I recently did a talk festival library, and by the end of it, it's not something I've gone out and done a lot of public speaking events, but it's something that I'm starting to get into. And by the end of it, what I just loved the most was the connection with other people who did connect with, like, what you're talking about, what your words were, or they found some sort of story within themselves to some sort of understanding, and it just blew my mind. So I can only imagine, you know, the community that you're involved in that you're reaching beyond, you know, obviously, your psychology practice and, well, your children as well. But, like, extending out further into the world and the other groups that you're connecting with, it must be incredible.
[00:21:09] Speaker D: Totally. That's, for me, that's been the most rewarding but also the hardest part of the process for me because I can get quite deeply emotional. And so when I'm hearing these just most beautiful stories and just, you know, I've had moms contact me saying, you know, their kiddos were just, you know, beaming. I've had moms who have bought six copies of the book because their kid wanted to give it to their teacher in their library and their family friends. And I've had adults who have contacted me who said they were in tears because they really saw themselves. And what a gift to be able to give those people. And that just blows me away that I was able to have the opportunity to do that and just create these meaningful experiences for these people.
I went into this saying, if I can have one person that reads the book that feels seen, you know, that's, that's enough for me for the whole journey. And, you know, I've had far, far more than one, but, you know, that, for me, was the driver is if I can do that, that's all I want to be able to do with this book.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Amazing. And it sounds like you're achieving it through the people that are contacting you. Are you getting inspiration to tell the stories of others or Nasi?
[00:22:29] Speaker D: A second book? Well, I did write the second book in my brain. It hasn't made it to my mobile phone, but I did write it in my brain while I was. As soon as I finished the first book, obviously, my brain doesn't stand still for very long, but I said to myself, I was trying to be rather sensible, and I said, no, no, just see how the first book goes first. But with the unbelievable support that I've had so far, you know, I'm very hopeful there will be a second book. I said, it is already written in my brain. It's just got to make its way out of my brain onto the mobile phone. As the first step, I'm going to follow the same process that worked for the first time. That's definitely hoping a book two will be coming and will be in a similar, similar sort of style, but maybe taking a little bit of a different angle, which will be exciting. Yeah, it's a fruition, I'm sure.
[00:23:25] Speaker A: Sounds like you've had a really positive experience as well. And obviously you say outsource. Outsource for the things that you don't see doing yourself. Is there any other, since you've obviously done the book, any general writing and publishing advice you'd share with authors about what you've just gone through or any of the process you tweak in the next book or.
[00:23:45] Speaker D: I think, you know, I think it's been a huge learning curve. So I think, you know, going into it, I think it's the balance. It's the balance between diving in and just seeing what happens and also being aware that. That it is quite a steep learning curve if you're not any way connected with the industry whatsoever and have just decided to learn absolutely everything there is about publishing. So I think it's walking that tie rope between, you know, just do it, but also be mindful that it is that big learning curve and create space for yourself, you know, to be able to manage that learning curve and whatever comes with that. I think that, you know, and I think probably goes alongside with outsource. But another big thing is don't be afraid to ask for help, and don't be afraid to ask connections or make. Try to make connections and ask those people for help. I've had the most amazing people jump on board to support my book, and, you know, I don't think it would have spread nearly as widely as it has so far without, without the support of those people.
I've had Maggie Dent review her book on her, you know, on her social media, and that's amazing. And so, you know, I put myself out there and I asked for support and I asked for help and I asked people, do you have schools in these areas? And might you be able to help me? Because I don't know what I'm doing. So I think being prepared to kind of identify the gaps that you might have and seeing, you know, are there people that are willing to kind of jump in there and help you out in those areas? Because I think certainly had the response of people being so incredibly generous with their time and knowledge, and I couldn't have done it without, without that happening. And so I'm so glad that I was able to gently nudge myself to make those connections and to ask those questions.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Oh, that's incredible. That's really great. You've had so much support. Have you, throughout any of the process, did you ever have any sort of worries or fears that arose from putting the work out there or anything that every single day.
[00:26:02] Speaker D: I don't think you could be a human being without that. Um, and I think it's, you know, it's, it's really important to acknowledge that that can be really hard and that, you know, we need to make time and space for that as well and be as gentle with ourselves as we can. I keep bringing myself back to, you know, when I started, my, my mission was if I can help one person feel seen, you know, that's, that's good enough for me. And I've done that. And so anything past that absolute bonus, but, you know, anything that uncomfortable or hard or, you know, if people don't like it, bringing it back to, you know, but I've met that first goal that I had, and that doesn't mean I can't make bigger and different goals, but really bringing it back to my mission and what was so important to me and what my values are and, you know, being able to recognize, hey, you've actually done that and that's pretty great. And, you know, yes, there are going to be other parts of this roller coaster, but you done the first part. That was the most important part to you.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And you should be proud. Absolutely. It sounds incredible. Can you tell us a little bit more about the book and where people can buy it?
[00:27:14] Speaker D: Definitely. Definitely. Sorry. Where me round world stories of growing up in a world not built for you. So I sell the hard copy hardcover version of the book that is just, you know, absolutely glorious through my website. So that's www.connectuspsychology.com. And then I wanted to make the book available, you know, for Internet national people as well. And shipping is just not friendly when you're shipping from Australia.
So I've made a paperback copy of the book available and that'll be available through places like Amazon and Barnes and Noble and those sort of online book retailers.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much, Chelsea. That's absolutely amazing. The book sounds incredible. It sounds like it's really making its mark out in the world and connecting with people and, and, yeah, we just.
[00:28:03] Speaker D: Wish you all the luck in the world.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: Thank you so much for coming on.
[00:28:06] Speaker D: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a joy.
[00:28:14] Speaker C: So there you have it, folks. The truly inspiring Chelsea lucar. And her story is being absolutely just going out into the world and doing what it's supposed to do. So please check her out and give your support there. Next time on the hybrid author podcast, we have Jessica Muddit chatting how a book succeeds in making the reader the fourth character through immersive writing style. I wish you well in your author adventure this next week. That's it for me.
[00:28:42] Speaker D: Bye for now.
[00:28:42] Speaker A: That's the end for now.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: Authors, I hope you are further forward in your author adventure after listening, and I hope you'll listen next time. Remember to head on over to the hybrid author website at www.hybridauthor.com Dot au to get your free author pass. It's bye for now.
