[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello authors.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: I'm Joanne Morell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for authors. Thanks for joining me for the hybrid Author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your book.
[00:00:18] Speaker C: You can get the show notes for.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: Each episode and sign up for your free author pass over at the hybrid author website to discover your writing process, get tips on how to publish productively, and get comfortable promoting your books at www.hybridauthor.com au. Let's crack on with the episode.
[00:00:42] Speaker D: Hello authors. I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to the podcast in. Today's interview is with Bernadette Foley from broadcast books and Bernadette has worked in house and freelance for many of Australia's leading publishing companies, including in the role of fiction and non fiction publisher at Hashette Australia and Pad, Macmillan and WeChat. Working with industry professionals to publish to a professional standard, using your strengths and working with your constraints when money isn't permitted to self publish your own books, copyright laws, Bernadette's time and lessons learned in traditional publishing, and her tips for self published authors so on my author adventure this week, I have been busy putting together the slides for my presentation, my talk, which is happening next Thursday, the 7 March at Australand Library. Yeah, it's kind of creeped up quick.
Yeah, I'm having fun kind of structuring it and putting information how I want it to be. It's good. So if anybody hasn't heard, the Shire of Harvey Library Services is having their literacy festival 2024 next week from the 7th to the eigth of March. The theme this year is imagine the possibilities. It's about discovery and my session is about discover roadblocks in writing with me, Joanne Morell. So if you are near Australand Library on the 7 March, it's an evening event 530 kickoff. And yeah, we're just going to discuss roadblocks and writing and afterwards have some cheese and wine and it's going to be very nice and relaxed and a good conversation, informative and inspiring. And I can't wait to meet the librarians at the library, connect with writers in Australand, and just yeah, I'm really, really excited. So I'll tell you a bit about the festival. Library's literacy festival 2024 the Shire of Harvey Libraries are proud to present its library's literacy festival. The theme for this festival is imagine the possibilities. This two day event includes a mix of free community events for all ages, creative writing workshops, author talks, and special activities. The festival features an exciting lineup of award winning authors, including David Wish Wilson, Josh Langley, Sasha Wosley, Sarah Foster, Christy Byrne, Kylie Howworth, Joanne Morel, Katie Stewart, and Camille Roche. If I'm saying her name right. So I'm absolutely thrilled to be included in this lineup. Some outstanding WA talent there and I know a fair few of them, but it's very, very proud to be included in this. So you can visit the library's webpage to download the literacy festival program or pick up a hard copy from Australand or Harvey Library. So my session for anybody who is attending says my books will be available for purchase and signing on the day. Yeah, that obviously all authors themselves handle the book selling. They'll say on there, please bring cash. There's no epos facilities are available, but I actually have a square reader so I'll be bringing that.
And I would do bank transfer services as well. So part of I'll just quickly tell you, well, the links will be in the show notes for the library events and my event and all that sort of thing to register for these. Yeah, preparing for the talk is not just me actually putting the presentation together, it is also making a list of the stuff that I have to take down. So Australand, from where I am in Perth, is about 2 hours away. So yeah, I need to make sure that I've got stock of my books, obviously something that people will be able to buy them.
So like I said, the e reader, I was going to bring cash as well. Like change to be given out too. If people have just got cash. And I've been an author talk before, where the person's square reader doesn't work and they've just done bank transfer right there and then. And yeah, leads, specific leads for my computer to hook up to their tv for the presentation and the slides. Just being thinking of aspects and avenues of things that every sort of scenario that could go wrong and just being prepared for it in the technical side, in the actual presentation side, there will be a little bit of reflection in my talk. But really it's up to the person if they want to. It's not going to be something that. Where it's shared, it's just for that person to touch on and ponder about the things that we're talking about. So things like having writing material available to people who haven't necessarily got their mobile phones with them that they can do notes, or even if the person just wants to sit and have a think those are the options. Just really excited.
It's going to be really good. So looking forward to sharing how that experience went with you next week. I have also been working on my young adult fiction. It is told from boy and a girl's perspective and it is a love story as well as many other things. So I'm really, really enjoying writing the starting to write the attraction and stuff between my two main characters. And there's a bit of humor in it and I'm sort of getting flooded with little scenes and little bits here and there. It's going to be an epic story, I think, by the end. And I attended the Perth Writers Festival over the weekend and that was very well put together at the state library. That's the first time I've ever been with it being held there. Yeah, I thought it was a good venue. Attended one workshop, which was with a bunch of authors that I know. They were talking about fiction, sorry, fantasy building fantastical worlds, Tara Moss and Meg Caddy, and it was facilitated by Bianca Breen. And it was just incredible. Just a lovely, inspiring session. And I took quite a few notes and then, yeah, I went to another panel that was called open mind, open book or something like that. And it was sort of touching on the professional and private life of public figures at this stage. But yeah, it was really nice. We had the squibby catch up beforehand and so it was lovely to see everybody and yeah, just left feeling very inspired, as always. When you attend writing events, that is how to fill yourself up if you are feeling lackluster. And probably a few weeks back, I probably was a little bit. Couple of weeks, like with the industry, and I don't know, just sometimes I'm very up and down. I think most people are in the writing industry and then when you go to an event and it just makes your heart sore again. So the upcoming interview with Bernadette is on publishing to a professional standard. And I just wanted to say I'm in line of the interview when I cast my mind back to my self published non fiction books and what would it mean to publishing to a professional standard? And obviously Bernadette shares a lot in the upcoming interview and really, really interesting points that she touches on that you don't really. Well, I'd certainly never thought about. And I remember if you're a regular listener of the podcast, you've probably followed when I have talked about these books, and I think it's the episode where I'm five tips for print books through Ingram Spark, I touch on my printing experience there. And yeah, obviously working with a third party printer company like Ingramspark to do my books. And there was a couple of instances where some of the review copies were, they weren't the right size, the inside matter wasn't correct on the pages, some of the review copies were squint. There was so much. And I can see why some people just, especially myself, I used to be quite impatient to get stuff out there. But you want to do it right and you want to do it right first off, you don't want to put it out there and then have it not to the publishing standard it's supposed to be. Because you know what? If you get it right first off, obviously self publishing and you can always go back and change it yourself. But if you get it right first off, then that product is there that.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: You can move on.
[00:08:27] Speaker D: That's it done for life. And you've done it justice and you can be proud. So yeah, I hope you enjoy the interview coming up with Bernadette, and you'll get some really top notch professional tips on how to publish to a professional standard.
[00:08:47] Speaker C: Thorn Creative where beautiful websites for authors are brought to life. No matter what stage you're at with your writing, your stories deserve a dedicated space to shine. Whether you're just starting out or have a bookshelf full of bestsellers, your website is the hub of your author business, binding everything you and your books offer together. Thorn creative can nurture all aspects of redesigning your old site or start afresh from the initial design. They can provide ongoing hosting and maintenance to marketing your books online, saving you time, money and stress trying to wrangle your site yourself. An author website built by Thorn Creative can easily direct readers to your favorite retailers, your publisher, or simply set you up to sell to them direct. The options are endless. Thorn Creative have worked with many authors across all genres and know what goes into good, functional working author websites. To sell books, head on over to thorncreative.com au slash websites for authors to read, author and publisher testimonials and to see what they offer and some of.
[00:09:56] Speaker D: The sites they've created.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: For 30 years, Bernadette Foley has worked in house and freelance for many of Australia's leading publishing companies, including in the role of fiction and nonfiction publisher at Hashette Australia and Pan Macmillan. Since 2015, she's run broadcast books, working directly with writers, assisting and encouraging them to develop their writing skills through individual mentoring and workshops, as well as working with authors to publish their books independently to a professional standard.
[00:10:45] Speaker E: Welcome to the hybrid Author podcast Bernadette thank you, Joanne. Thanks for inviting me on. And I have to say, I could just listen to even you made my bio sound so beautiful.
Your voice is perfect for a podcast.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Thank you. Thanks very much. Well, your bio sings on its own. It's absolutely fantastic. You have had such a career. So take us to the very beginning. Why writing and publishing. How did you come into this industry?
[00:11:11] Speaker E: Absolutely pure luck. Completely lucky. I just happened to be working. I was working as a tea lady while finishing university. I don't think they exist anymore. And it was rare then. And a woman I worked with, her husband was a publisher who was taking very early retirement, so he wasn't really interested in building up his publishing list anymore, but really keen to train somebody. So it was just completely serendipitous. Yeah.
[00:11:40] Speaker A: That is so cool. I love that story. Yeah.
So then obviously you started there and did you just jump into different publishing houses as opportunities arose?
[00:11:52] Speaker E: Yes. When I've worked in house, which is working within the publishing company, it's always been with the large companies that wasn't really by design. I really respect the smaller companies in Australia, smaller publishers, but I've worked for, as you said, pan, Mac, Alan and Unwan Ashette and just loved it. And I think it's a good thing for people in publishing to move from company to company, not all the time, but just to. Each company has its own culture and it's good to experience different ways of doing things. So it hasn't been deliberate to move, but if opportunities arose, then I took them and had an experience in a different type of company, which has been great.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing. And I connect with that from a writer's level over the years, submitting my work to traditional publishing houses and realizing through critiques and feedback that no publisher is going to publish my work the same. That kind of clicked for me quite early on. So yeah, that's good to get a wide variety of learning from the different houses. What was the thought process behind? Hang on, I'm going to jump ship now and start my own business and broadcast books and work with all.
[00:13:01] Speaker E: So I had been at Ashette, which is one of the largest publishers in Australia and also one of the largest in the world. I had been with Ashette for around eleven years, so I could have had long service leave, but I was told I couldn't take long service leave, which was a little bit od or not in one block. And I love publishing, it's what I've always done, but it's very singular. You can almost predict what people are going to think what your colleagues are going to think, almost who they're going to vote for. So I thought it's time to jump out of publishing for a minute and see not the world, but to see my local area. So at the end of 2014, I had the economic security of the long service leave money, and I worked for a not for profit for twelve months, helping long term unemployed people. And that was a revelation. I didn't realize that people in the center of Sydney were doing it so tough. So I think that was a really important shift for me. At the end of twelve months, I could have stayed, but I really wanted to get back into books, and I had ideas about what I wanted to do. So that's when I set up broadcast books. So, as you said, joanne, in my business, I work really closely with authors, which is what I did as a publisher. But I can work to help teach authors, help teach editors, and also help authors to publish independently, which I really enjoy.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: No, that's amazing. And we're going to hear more about what you do with broadcast books as well. But I'll just pedal back from what you said with the traditional publishing houses, how you obviously worked for some of the big five, and because they're very different. Can you tell us what were some of the important lessons you learned working for the individual traditional publishing houses?
[00:14:53] Speaker E: Yes. What I loved about working for them is you have lots of different teams, so you have publicity, marketing, sales, publishing, and editorial, of course, finance. It's such a fantastic machine. So when it's working well, and all those departments are working to make a book sell, there's nothing more exciting. When you, as the publisher, have a manuscript or even a concept from an author that you're excited about. And on those occasions when you take it to a meeting, publishing meeting, and everybody shares your excitement, it's the most dynamic way of working. The flip side is sometimes you feel that you can put forward new ideas about doing things. And publishing is traditional, and sometimes that's for really good reasons. But sometimes I felt that let's try something different, and some colleagues would say yes, and others would just say no. Let's stay focused on what we've always done. So that's the two aspects of publishing in the big houses, but certainly when it is working, it's really singing.
[00:16:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you think the big traditional publishing houses, from what you've said there, do you think that they're open to kind of, as you were saying, some people are on board for new ways of doing things, but others not so much. Does everybody have to agree across the board?
[00:16:16] Speaker E: They do have to agree. And again, there's good sides and bad sides to that. It's really important for authors to know if they're submitting a manuscript to a big company. It's never accepted or turned down by one person. In the big companies, decisions are made by lots and lots of people. And I think that is a good thing, because no one can take the cued off personally on behalf of an author, and nor can they take the blame if something doesn't sell. But going back to your question, it has to be maybe not unanimous, but there has to be the support from most people to try something new. And you have to get past certain gatekeepers along the way. But what I should say in defense of traditional publishers is it's a very unusual business model. If you were to talk to someone, from someone senior up in a different type of company, in a different industry, that say, how do you make any money? So the profit levels in general are quite low, and then you get best sellers that keep the lights on if you like. So that's why there's some hesitancy for trying new things, because there's not a lot of fat.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: Yeah, fair enough. And as you're speaking there, it's funny, I've never actually considered not rejection, I suppose, from a publishing perspective, because obviously, as writers, we put our work in, and if we get rejected, that's it. But for yourselves, taking work as you speak about it, passionately excited about an author's idea or concept or work, and you're taking it to these acquisitions, then for it to not go any further or shot down, how does that affect the publisher? I haven't even thought of that. You're getting rejected as well.
[00:17:51] Speaker E: It is devastating. It's worse for the author, but it is so bad for the publisher, for the individual publisher. You put so much into it, you see how you could work with the author, could see even how you could help them build their careers, and you can't take it further. But I really want to say that authors being rejected, I know this is hard, but I say to authors, you have 24 hours, maybe 48 hours to wallow and be really upset. After that, please bounce back again, because unless you're in that acquisitions meeting, you don't know what all the factors were that led to a decision to reject your work or to take it on. And the quality of the writing is only one part of it. It could be that the publisher has something similar that they're already publishing it could be that they did something similar five years ago and it didn't sell, so they're still cautious. There are so many factors. But when you get through the publishing meeting and you are allowed to make an offer to an author, that phone call is the most glorious thing for a publisher to remember.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: Amazing. Yeah. It's like making someone's dreams come true, isn't it?
[00:19:02] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: So obviously this is the hybrid author podcast, so we do talk about all means of publishing as well. And the books that come out of the traditional publishing houses are fantastic. They're beautiful. They're up to, obviously, industry standard. And there's a lot of self publishing tools out there now that can make really fantastic books as well. But in your opinion, when it comes to book publishing, what's considered as the industry standard for professional books?
[00:19:35] Speaker E: Well, starting answering that from the end and working backwards, my practice is you should not be able to tell the difference between a self published book and one published by one of the big five. So that means even though it's costly, perhaps you need a professionally designed cover by a book designer. You need professionally designed and typeset tech. The book has to be edited professionally, proofread every stage. You have to make it your business as an independent author to work with professionals, and then you'll get a professional standard book. That's so important.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. For sure. Because you can tell, like, I spoke recently on the podcast that I ordered a book. It was off Amazon, and I have to say, the COVID was so professional. And that really took me in. And it annoyed me because I was choosing between that book and a different one for my daughter for Christmas. And it was a cooking book. So, I mean, you do expect these cookbooks. So I'm not saying they always have to be big or whatever, but you certainly expect beautiful pictures of the food. And when it arrived, it was a tiny, small book, and I pulled it out and I knew straight away, I knew it had been self published right away. I'd self published myself. I just knew the size and whatnot. But when I opened it, it was all kind of faded pictures, black and white, and the COVID was so.
And I went back and read the reviews, and if I had read the reviews, people had already pointed this out. So it was definitely a lesson learned.
[00:21:04] Speaker E: Yeah, I know. That's so disappointing.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: It was with publishing to a professional standard. You've obviously mentioned working with individuals and things. Do you have any tips for authors looking to publish to that professional standard outside of, obviously, what you've just shared? How do they find sort of legit individuals, obviously yourself.
[00:21:27] Speaker E: Yeah, that's a very good question. I have a low tolerance level for people who offer services and they don't have the skills to back them up. And that doesn't happen so much in Australia. Unfortunately, it can happen with individuals and companies in UK and America that offer to offer services for independent authors. And they're just not what I consider professional. So word of mouth is brilliant. Go on to a writer's group on Facebook and say, has anyone used a good editor? Really? Word of mouth is great. The other thing too is look in the acknowledgement pages of books, both self published books and traditional. Doesn't matter if an editor or a designer or anyone has done a good job, they're often acknowledged by the author. So that's really helpful. And if you pick up a book that is, well, typeset or well designed, an australian book, then just open the imprint page, which is the page following the title page. And that should list all the service providers like the printer, the typeset of the designer. And if you like what they've done in that book, then contact them. So there's some tips. But just going back to that cookbook, one of the concerns for me on behalf of indie authors, and I don't have many concerns because it's really exciting to publish your own book independently. But I am aware that it costs a bit. So let's say you were publishing, wanted to publish your own cookbook, but you could not afford the good photography, the food preparation, the food styling. Then think, okay, rather than do a bad job, I'm going to have a different approach. I'm going to. Maybe instead of photographs, I'll write a one paragraph story about when I first tried that dish or something. So work within the constraints that you have and make them into a feature.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: That's really, really good advice there. Yeah, I haven't heard that put. I don't know. This person seems to. I don't know how he can take that idea either, because they've got other cookbooks on there, but it's almost like knockoffs. Cookbooks from tv shows.
[00:23:34] Speaker E: Oh dear, that's getting really awful.
[00:23:36] Speaker A: Well, I was just know, when it comes to all that, I wonder if he's got copyright, is he allowed to do this sort of thing? I don't know, Joanne.
[00:23:43] Speaker E: That's a really good point that I haven't mentioned. Is professional standard. Also, of course, includes copyright and libel laws. So for indie authors, don't think that because your book might only. You might not want your book to go out widely, but you're publishing it, and even if you produce only ten copies, you have published that book. And so it has to comply with copyright laws in Australia and with libel laws. So never underestimate those.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a big undertaking, really, I think publishing to a professional standard. If you want to do that, as you said, you've got to keep up with the big traditional houses or just traditional publishing standard. And that is going through the steps of how they do it, working with professionals along the way and meeting the guidelines and the criteria and things. So, no, that's all fabulous advice.
[00:24:34] Speaker D: They are.
[00:24:35] Speaker A: So, no, please tell us about broadcast books and the services you offer, and how do you guys encourage authors to distribute their work after they've gone through all these steps of publishing professionally?
[00:24:47] Speaker E: Yes. Thanks, Joanne. Unfortunately, distribution is the hardest part for an indie author. So at broadcast books, we can do everything up to, but not including distribution, we can give advice about how to distribute. But if you want to get your books into every bookshop in Australia and you want to self publish, that is incredibly difficult. Again, it's working within your constraint. If you have published a memoir, say, and it's very personal, it's well written, it's well produced, but it's very personal. And you might get it into your local bookshop, but you probably won't get it into many others, and you're certainly unlikely to get it into the airport bookshops. So think laterally and think, how else can I sell this book if it's a memoir? You've done a lot of research, possibly, or you've used the practices of memoir writing. Can you give a talk about not only your book, but the process of writing and researching it in your local library and sell copies there. So what I like to do really early in the process with working with an indie author is to sit down with them or have a Zoom call with them and say, okay, let's say the book is finished. How are you going to make sure that the book does not sit in your garage or your spare room? Let's plot that out now and think really laterally about all the contacts you have. Any talks you plan to give, any talks that maybe you had never thought about giving, how are you going to move it beyond relying on bookshop? And also, how are you going to set up a presale campaign? I think it's exciting. Some people hate the idea, but if you present it to people and really talk through it, they can see that. Okay, that is exactly what I'm going to have to do. And I do try to encourage people to find a way to enjoy the process. Because it's going to be rare that you're going to make a fortune out of it. So I would hope that your outcome makes you happy and proud of what you've done. So think about how you can get the book out yourself. And there's certainly ways.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I love that. I think that can get lost, can't it? Like thinking about the joy of it. Because people get stuck on, and I'm one of those people as well. Sometimes you feel like you have to either be doing what everybody else is doing. And if you're uncomfortable, then you think about that fear. Or that almost sort of stops you from putting yourself out there to sell the books. But if you can approach it creatively and think about the benefits, that's what I forget. And recently having to tell myself, not think about all the worries and the fears that come with putting your work out there. But on the other side of it, why are you doing this? You're doing this because you've got good information to share. It's going to benefit someone else. It's going to help enrich their lives or whatnot. So, no, that's really sound advice. So what are some of the other things that broadcast books do? Do you help indie authors create the books as well?
[00:27:42] Speaker E: You do manuscript, rather than manuscript assessments? I do structural edits. So they're similar, but a little different. So structural edits are the first stage in the editing process. They're looking at the big picture of a manuscript. So identify what's working and what's not working, so that the author knows how to take the manuscript to the next level.
I often also work with people before they have written much at all. So a lot of authors, both traditionally published and indie, might not be able to write very well, which surprises some people. But they have brilliant ideas or they have brilliant experiences that are unique to them. And so together we find a way to turn those experiences or that knowledge into a book. And I really love that it's sitting down and brainstorming structure what will go into the book, what won't go into the book, what format the book will be, what the aims are for the author, all of those sort of things, which is you do need somebody else to brainstorm with. And so that's a big part of my job, which I find really satisfying.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that's exciting to be helping someone spitball ideas and then create something from scratch that's really cool. News and all your expertise. Fantastic. Well, honestly, Verona, you've shared so much and you can tell that you've got an absolute joy and passion for what you, you know, encourage everybody to go and check out broadcast books. Can you share with our listeners where they can discover everything that you do on offline?
[00:29:19] Speaker E: Yes. Well, Joanne, I would love to say everything. My website, like nearly everyone I know, my website needs a little bit of updating, but please go and visit www. Dot broadcast B-R-O-A-D-C-A-S tbooks bwoks.com au and you can find out about the services I offer, writing workshops and about my experience. And also on the homepage, it shows some of the books that we've worked on with indie authors over the last couple of years.
[00:29:51] Speaker A: Fantastic.
Is it yourself? Have you got a team going?
[00:29:56] Speaker E: I am broadcast books, but I have definitely got a team. So I work with a small number of book designers, a small number of very good editors. I have an editor, a training editor who comes in and works with me in my beautiful Sydney office. And I use a proofreading firm called Pudding Burn, who are excellent. So like what I said earlier, Joanne, for people to find professionals, that's what I do too. So I'm just lucky that I have a network that I can draw on. But it's very small because that's deliberate. It's got to be people that I admire their work. I know that they won't let me down, not meeting a schedule or something. So they're people I respect.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: No. Fantastic. And you would know with so much experience in the business. So that's amazing that you've utilized it and put it into something so helpful for us authors. So fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Bernadette, for your expertise and your time. That was fantastic.
[00:30:59] Speaker E: Thank you, Joanne, and good luck everyone. Keep writing but also keep reading. Very important.
[00:31:04] Speaker A: Yes, it is. Yeah.
[00:31:07] Speaker E: Okay. Thanks, Joanne. Bye.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: So there you have it, folks.
[00:31:17] Speaker D: The brilliant Bernadette from broadcast books. And as you heard, Bernadette is a dynamite in her field. She's a wealth of knowledge professional and she has tons and tons of experience. So if you are looking to self publish your work, you're in Australia or whatnot, head on over to broadcast books.
[00:31:31] Speaker A: Links in the show notes.
[00:31:32] Speaker D: Next time on the hybrid author podcast, we have children's author Callum Greenell and he's chatting to us on balancing energy and focus to write a full manuscript while raising a family. I wish you well in your author adventure this next week. That's it for me.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: Bye for now.
[00:31:46] Speaker E: That's the end for now.
[00:31:47] Speaker B: Authors, I hope you are further forward in your author adventure after listening, and I hope you'll listen next time. Remember to head on over to the hybrid author
[email protected] dot au to get your free author pass.
[00:32:01] Speaker D: It's bye for now.
