[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello authors.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: I'm Joanne Morell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for authors. Thanks for joining me for the hybrid author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your books. You can get the show notes for each episode and sign up for your free author pass over at the hybrid author website to discover your writing process, get tips on how to publish productively, and get comfortable promoting your books at www. Dot.
Let's crack on with the episode.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Hello authors. I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to the podcast in. Today's interview is with non fiction author Liz Long, and we're chatting about navigating life's complexities and applying them in writing.
So on my author adventure this week, I managed to get my pages for the young adult fiction book that I'm writing for the rottnest writing retreat that I'm going to in June. The pages were due for a critique that I've booked. I think it was Wednesday or whenever it was, and although I'd been working hard on them, I still managed to get them in about a couple of minutes to deadline.
And you know what? That's just always been me. I've always just worked up into the very last minute. And you know what? It's like a perfection thing as well. And I don't know, that's maybe will I ever grow out of that? I'm not sure. The main thing is it got in and it's a critique. So I'm looking for feedback. It wasn't 100% perfect or polished or whatever it was. It was. It was good. But there was a paragraph which I felt might have been a bit of a description dump, which I'd probably on second read of. After sending it, I thought, yeah, I should have removed that. There's always ways to make the work better. But pleased, pleased I got the deadline in for that and I I will continue working on that until I have the first draft complete and I'm looking to have that full manuscript pretty much ready to go by the time I go over to Rottnest. And there I will get critiques done and I will get feedback from other members. There's something, yeah, I'm part of like peer review over there. So I'll be sharing my work, letting people read it. I'm getting feedback on it. So then when we come home in June, you get a chance to rework the work or just make it better, and then you also get a chance to submit. So that's when I want it all to be prepared, is the current writing project I'm working on. Sadly, the Australian Society of Authors Harlequin, which is imprint of HarperCollins, and they published women's fiction. I had a women's fiction book in for the fiction prize, and unfortunately it wasn't on the shortlist that got announced the other day. So it just shows how much I've come on, though. Like, I was waiting on the list coming out. I had it in my diary, but this. Avid listeners of the podcast know that this work was something I was working on last year. It actually all began as a rapid release project, which didn't happen, but I ended up with this one book which dragged on into this year, so. And then I originally, the whole plan was to self publish, and I got sidetracked by this fiction competition, and I don't regret it. I think that I. It freed me up to be doing other things where I'm at in my life just yet. It was the right, right timing. So now that that's not happened, I'm reverting back to the original plan of self publish because that is what the book was originally intended for. And in the thrones of putting together a marketing plan for that, I have. I always had a front cover, but I'm gonna do an episode where I dive deeper into the work and things like that. But I've actually just started putting out the feelers to have this, the artwork for what I originally seen commission starting to get in touch with freelancers, which maybe I should have done before. In my mind, I thought I should have all this ready to go come the 1 may. So if I'm not on the shortlist, then it's all go, go. But it just didn't work out that way. And maybe I just live. Obviously you live in hope that you know you are gonna win. Really my reasons for wanting a traditional publishing deal at this point in my writing career, there's always been this status thing, I suppose, from the beginning, but it feels like it's less about that now, and it's more about just the amount of projects that I have aspirations for. At least one section of that, at least one genre would be nice if I had a publishing company taking over that side, so I didn't have to be doing it all. That's where I'm at at this point, would be nice just to be having collaborative work with a traditional publishing house for some of my work. So I don't have to do it all. And so I was feeling a bit, ugh. You know, I don't know what the word is, not fed up. But when I read that shortlist, you, you know, first in the past, I would have been sorely disappointed and probably on a bit of a downer, but it was a case of glancing at it. I just don't even think. I didn't even feel bad. There was nothing. In fact, I felt nothing. I don't know what that says. It was a case of, okay, it's not there. Move on. And I didn't even have to move on. It was just. Yeah, it was really surreal, actually. And that, to me, proves how far I've come in my writing author adventure that I just don't give a shit.
I cannot give a shit right now. It's part and parcel. We all know that. Steam on. Yeah. I think that the most I felt was that it sounds terrible, but like, I just couldn't be bothered with the amount of work that I know is to come. But then the next day, I. As I was thinking about it and starting to put wheels in motion, all that sort of thing, I was starting to get really creative ideas around the whole process. Starting to feel excited, starting to get, you know, a bit bubbly about the whole thing again and just starting to realize absolutely how much I enjoy what I do and this whole process. So full steam ahead. Very excited to be. Going to be getting this work out. And there'll be more details to come as I'm just trying to figure out schedules, timelines, being realistic about it as well. As much as I've got, you know, my parents here, I would love my mum to be part of the launch and things like that because she really loves this book. Unfortunately, they're going to Scotland for a year come June, start of June as well. And I don't think it's going to be feasible to, you know, me in the past would be like trying to push it out before then. And I know for a fact we're the 3 may now. That would be unrealistic and not fair for the work. So it's a shame she's gonna miss the launch and the actual release of it. But anyway, it is what it is. She got to read it first. So this weekend I am going back to the back lot studio. If you heard me last time, I've been attending books to film events at a studio which is not far from me. It's a little screening studio and full of creative people and they choose a book. They watch the movie. They have other people present from the industry and talk about their adaptation from the book to film. And it's something I'm really interested in. So this event is happening this Sunday, backlot studio, and it's Ripley's game and the film had John Malkovich in it and Scott Degray. I think that's Dugray. Is that how you say it? He's a scottish guy and it's old. It's really older. But yeah, I went into a bookstore today to try and find the book, but I couldn't find it. So yeah, lots of working pretty much and getting myself into gear happening. I hope that your week has been well and the same mine. If something hasn't turned out how you wanted it to, what's your backup plan? Did you have a backup plan? What are you going to do now? What are you doing moving forward? Don't just let something lie. Your hard work is not wasted. Pivot. Change it, adapt it. Do something with it. There's not this is the hybrid author podcast. It's not one way fits. It's not one way of doing things. It's always find the best way for the work and go for your life.
So if you love the podcast or any of the episodes has helped you further in your author career, you can now pay it forward by buying me a coffee.
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[00:08:07] Speaker D: Liz Long is the author of navigating Shitstorms. How to find your true path when life gets rough. Always believing her brain lacked the essential organization for success, a formal diagnosis at age 58 challenged this belief, offering a new vantage point where being different was not a flaw but an elevated perspective, becoming the cornerstone of her ever evolving self understanding. Now at the forefront of mental health advocacy, Liz shares her journey and inspires others to confront their own storms, discover resilience within, and find their way to freedomville. Fantastic.
[00:08:44] Speaker C: Welcome to the Hybrid Author podcast, Liz.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: Hey, Joanne, thanks so much. I'm so happy to be here.
[00:08:49] Speaker C: Oh, we're so happy to have you.
[00:08:51] Speaker D: You know, it sounds like you've been on quite the ride. So can you tell us how come you've ended up in writing and publishing?
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Yes, it has been a ride, as most people's life journeys are. It was never on my bucket list or a goal of mine to write a book. Life just evolved that way. And yeah, it just happened. I had some childhood trauma and I talk about that in my book, and lots of people have had shit that has happened in their childhoods. For me, it all caught up to me later in life, and I ended up checking myself into a private recovery center for depression. And it was after I had healed and gone through a lot of what had occurred in my childhood and then came out and reintegrated into the real world and my life that I had a different perspective about the years I had left and how I wanted to spend that time. And I decided that I would write a book and share my story. And that's how navigating shitstorms was born.
[00:10:09] Speaker D: Amazing. I love the title.
Did you get some help with that, or does that just sum up your complexities?
[00:10:18] Speaker A: The title was a real. Was a journey. In fact, I actually delayed the publication date for my book by almost three months because we hadn't nailed down the title and my publisher had come up with some really good options, but they just didn't feel right. And so I started brainstorming with people I knew, and it was with dear friend Tina Petrelli over coffee, and she came up with one part and one word, and I came up with the other. But I just. I love the title. And the thing I like best is when I'm doing readings or I'm at markets or places where I see people read the title, I see it in their face, they read the title, and then, like, within a couple of seconds, it hits them and this grin kind of spreads, this knowing, you know, they start nodding their heads and their whole demeanor changes and they're like, yep, yep.
[00:11:13] Speaker D: I would have to say I was one of those people. I thought, yeah, I connect with that, right?
[00:11:19] Speaker A: I think that almost everybody does. That's the, that's the human experience, is navigating some shit storms.
[00:11:26] Speaker D: Well, I like that. You know, you put it in there because some people might think, oh, that might detect people because it's a swear word or something, but I think it just knows it well.
[00:11:36] Speaker A: Yeah. So if people don't like the word shit, they're not going to enjoy my book. It's not like it's every fifth word, but it is in there more than a few times.
[00:11:47] Speaker D: Yeah, well, it's like that book that was really popular. Oh, and I had it as well, and it's gone out of my head completely. But it was something like that. Get your. It had like the little asterisks or whatever too, instead of the swear words, but like something like get your s together. But it was really popular. And I think people, like you said, I think people just connect with that. And it just grasps that, you know, you have been through some shit.
So, please, you know, today's topic is on navigating life's complexities, you know, applying them to writing. So are you able to dive a little deeper into some of the shitstorms that you've gone through? You know, how you've applied them in this work?
[00:12:27] Speaker A: So, with respect to writing the book or with my ADHD diagnosis, we'll go.
[00:12:33] Speaker D: With writing the book, and then we'll move into the ADHD as well.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: So, I mean, when I grew up, I was born in 1962, and the awareness of ADHD didn't exist. So I have throughout my life, I've owned my own business, and I single handedly raised two children, and I had a house. And so I had already come up with a whole host of accommodations and coping strategies to enable me to function and not let things fall through the cracks and stay organized with my life. However, I didn't have a system for writing a book. I'd never done it before, and I hadn't studied it. And it was really daunting and overwhelming, the task of planning and executing and organizing 60,000 words. And it was almost at the cusp of digging into that well, it was right in the mucky middle of the beginning of my book when I did get diagnosed. So. And that's a. That's a different story. But the. The challenges that I had were mostly because it was new to me and I didn't have any systems in place, because that's how I managed my brain, was I had checklists, and I didn't have any checklists for writing a book. So I. I joined a workshop group that was referred to me. And this woman, AJ Harper, is phenomenal in her experience with writing and publishing for non fiction authors, primarily. And through that group, it was a four month long program. I found the instruction and the guidelines, the plan, if you will, along with the accountability to write my book. And in that program, I probably got about 90% of my, what they call the shitty first draft completed. So I needed to reach out for some support and some guidance.
I had nothing in my toolbox. I had studied it. I hadn't done it before. So I was starting from ground zero.
[00:14:43] Speaker D: Wow, that's amazing. And your ADHD diagnosis later on in life, how has that changed your life to actually formally have a diagnosis? So, did you. Was there, did you have any inklings before with certain things? Like you said, your brain kind of does checklists, and only in hindsight.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: Joanne, you know how how when we. When we know something, then we can look back and we can. We can see the. The breadcrumbs, we can see the little signs, but you don't know what you don't know. And I lived most of my life not having that label, having that diagnosis, and so I just figured out accommodations in ways that worked for me to muddle through or, you know, succeed through. But when I got the diagnosis, it was. And it was a fluke. You want me to tell you how it happened?
[00:15:30] Speaker D: Yeah, please.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: It was total happenstance. I was having a conversation with a very close friend of mine, and she was working in an environment with a younger millennial colleague who had ADHD. And she wasn't complaining necessarily, but she was talking about how it was to collaborate and work with this person, and some of the behaviors that they were exhibiting that sometimes were a challenge for her or frustrating. And as she was telling me the things that this person was doing, I said, well, wait a sec, I do that. And then she would tell me something else, and I would say, that's me, too.
There were three or four things. And finally she said, well, maybe you have ADHD, too. And I thought, oh, my gosh, maybe I do. And so, like most of our first responses is, we go online, and Doctor Google and I found five or six different assessments that I took online, and they all came back affirmative, anywhere from about 65% to 90%. That, yes, I did. It was a little shocking. I was a bit in denial at first, and the next step was to call my family physician, and he put me through his own assessment that also confirmed it. And then in touch with a psychiatrist. And, you know, that denial, the label initially hit me as a flaw, as a something deficient in my being. But very quickly, it morphed into grace and compassion for myself, because I realized that not having known that was a challenge for me. I had successfully overcome so many things in my life, and I was able to accomplish so many things in my life in the face of that. And so it was actually a little confidence building and also somewhat reassuring because, you know, when I struggled to do all the tasks that it seemed to me other people weren't struggling with doing throughout my adult life, I assumed, because we make up shit in our heads about what everything means, I assumed that, you know, my brain just was less than, you know, my focus was less than. I wasn't as organized, as smart as able to multitask or, you know, I got overwhelmed far more readily than the average person. I mean, it's a label, and that's all it is. And I think depending on the person and the circumstances and the timing in their life, it can have a different impact for everyone. But for me, it actually was a relief. It was. It filled in some blanks that I had made up worse stories to explain, you know?
[00:18:17] Speaker D: Yeah, I can. Well, I can only imagine from my understanding of it, what just keeps coming to mind so late on that, I guess, is struggle. A word like, do you feel like you've struggled in different areas and then, like you said, you tell yourself it's almost lies just because you don't know what you know, which are probably not confidence boosters either, that, you know, you're this way because of this. And then, like you said, it's a relief later on in life to actually be like, well, actually, hang on, that was all rubbish. And this is the true fact now, exactly. What I'm finding is how common it seems to be this day and age. Women, I don't know many men, actually, but women are getting diagnosed later in life like it's really, really common. And why do you think that is, then? Just from the times or.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the times have a lot to do with it. I know that here in Canada, when I was in elementary school, it absolutely was not on any teacher's radar. You know, it wasn't anything that they were trained to look out for or any accommodation made or it wasn't even. It wasn't even a thing. You know, there were if kids had trouble, you know, focusing or they were fidgety and I never had the hyper part of it, but I did, you know, I would daydream a lot and I look back at some of my report cards and I was Elizabeth back then and they were all, you know, Elizabeth talks too much. Elizabeth doesn't focus. Elizabeth is not living up to her potential. The comments were full of things like that.
[00:19:49] Speaker D: Yeah, well, I'm a massive Patreon, catch myself just staring off into space sometimes. But then I associate that with storytelling and all that. So is that, you know, you feel like you can tell yourself, you can sort of make allowances for certain things and think it's to do with that. Because the stereotypical ADHD are, in my mind, is someone who is hyper and bouncing off the walls and, yeah, doesn't stop and is full high energy. But then I have a friend whose son was diagnosed and I was like, really most quite as placid little thing, but very unfocused, I think, and work and more that kind of side of it. So there's maybe some traits and some not. But do you feel like this diagnosis has helped your writing process or has it hindered it in any way? Being. I mean, I don't know, are you unfocused or you're focused now?
[00:20:36] Speaker A: I'm focused now. I think I have a little bit more grace for myself, and I've developed more of a strategy as to how I approach bigger writing projects. And I haven't undertaken, taken another project as big as my book. But now that I've done it once, I know that I can chunk it down into smaller pieces. And, you know, I have. I have a plan, more of a checklist that I could execute were I to do it again.
[00:21:03] Speaker D: Yeah. Oh, no, that's good.
[00:21:05] Speaker C: Well, tell us about the book.
[00:21:06] Speaker D: You know, it sounds, well, not complex, but you've got a lot in there of chapters and things that are going to aid people.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: The book is a. It's a combination of true crime and memoir, self help and humor. I share what happened in my childhood and the summary of which is that a very close family member, she was technically my aunt, but we were raised like sisters. She vanished when I was six years old. She disappeared. And for five years, we didn't know if she was alive or dead. And my mother, my grandparents, my grandmother was psychotic with grief and the imagination and wondering the what ifs of what was happening to her or had happened to her. And then my grandfather had a stroke. And so my mother very quickly stepped into the role of managing this crisis, and our home became the hub for all of that. And that defined my childhood. In my book, I share. I only have eight childhood memories, so I do share those. And I've created this fictitious world that I call victim town. And there are places in victim town, such as the control factory, the guilt and shame cafe, the denial trails, the resentment parking lot, the anger gas station. And in each of those places, I talk about the voices in our head that we all have. I mean, we. We all have that internal dialogue and the victim town voices. And I have a name for the voice in each of those places is the voice that says things that. That's derived to make us afraid and keep us small. And it's the voice that makes us feel really shitty about ourselves. And the other voice, the one that talks back to it, is what I call our heart voice. And that's a voice that every single human was born with. And I liken that voice to our happiness gps. That's the voice that is founded in love. And that knows instinctively what is for our best and our unique purpose and. And best life. So I talk a lot about the internal dialogue. And then part three of the book is where I share the things that helped me when and when I checked myself into the place. I call it the place. I was seriously depressed. I was suicidal, and I spent a couple of months there, and then I spent an additional couple of months when I came out still working full time on my healing journey. And the thing is, we can't ever stop shit from happening in our lives. You know, shit storms are going to arrive, and there's a lot of things that are not in our control. And so what. What my goal is for my readers is to provide some guidance for them to find their own path to a place that I call Freedomville. And that path looks different for every single one of us. It's not a, you know, one, two, three. Here's the directions. Turn left here and turn right there and you'll arrive.
It's not. And landing in victim town also is. Is not. Is not necessarily a bad thing. Every single human goes there. It's where we go, you know, to the guilt and shame cafe or the sorrel swampland when. When we're not quite ready to face the pain of whatever it is that is happening now or whatever it is that has happened a long time ago that we're still not ready to. To deal with. The other thing that I. That I love is that by naming the places in victim town, there are a whole group of new people that are becoming aware for the very first time of the voices in their head and that they. They are indeed hanging out in. In victim town. So that's sparking them to reflect on their lives and their childhoods, and it offers them the opportunity to make some changes. Right? And then the other thing that the place names do is they serve to destigmatize some tough mental health issues and makes conversations a little less vulnerable. You know, I could share with somebody when they say, you know, hey, how was your weekend? You know, I could say, actually, you know, I had a couple meals in the guilt and shame cafe, and they might know exactly how I was feeling. And once we can open up a dialogue and talk about things, then everything becomes less scary and everybody feels less alone. So it's a way that we can share what's happening with us, and it's also a way that we can ask questions and support and foster a dialogue with people that we love, that we want to support, because, you know, it's vulnerable. It's hard. It's like, how's your mental health?
[00:26:26] Speaker D: Are you okay?
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Are you okay?
We all want to support people, and we all. Not we all, but a lot of us struggle to find the. The right words because. Because we don't want to say we're afraid. We don't say the wrong thing. You know, my vibe in some of my stories, and not to make light or use humor as a coping mechanism, but, you know, at the same time, you have to kind of have a lightness to life if you're gonna. If you're gonna get through it. So some of my concepts and my stories and my things are funny. Not funny.
[00:27:00] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. Absolutely.
Laugh to survive, though. It sounds like you're an absolute survivor. You've gone through some stuff, and you're using it for now. And the book sounds incredible. I feel like I've definitely visited that town and that cafe and all the places, right?
[00:27:16] Speaker A: Yeah, we all have. And that's okay. You know, to spend short amounts of time in any of the places in victim town.
It's in those places that we learn our most valuable life lessons. It's through spending time in those places that we become better humans. But when we get stuck in victim town for years and years, then that's really risky. And that's where real mental health and physical health issues settle in.
[00:27:49] Speaker D: Yeah. No, absolutely. And so would that be your advice to authors trying to navigate their complexities and apply them to writing? Would you advise that you sort of create kind of like a landscape, like how you've created, to present ideas going forward? Or do you think that is quite a good way to share ideas and things?
[00:28:08] Speaker A: Well, I would invite any author to find their own unique path and to listen to their heart voice, to listen to that voice that is reassuring and hopeful and kind and knowing and follow your instincts as to what is the best path for you?
I mean, there's so many different ways to approach any project, and it's not a one size fits all experience. So I would encourage people to be compassionate with themselves and to slow down and do what feels like the right approach for them and to not listen to other people because, you know.
[00:28:57] Speaker D: Or the bad voice in their head.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: Right? Especially, especially, especially not the shitty voice in our heads, right? Don't listen to that one. One that says, you know, you're never gonna finish, and who do you think you are anyways? And nobody's gonna read it. I mean, we can't ever make those voices go away entirely, but we can find ways to put them in their place and to strengthen our heart voice. So that. That's the one that we hear more often.
[00:29:24] Speaker D: Yeah, no, absolutely. I've been listening to that shitty voice for years now, and now I just. I literally dust my shoulder. I'm like, boy, like I say, it's Siri. When that little voice thing comes up, when it's, you know, the Siri thing, go away. Like, you know, I'm not calling you. I don't even use you.
Exactly that. So it's great. No, that's fantastic, Liz. And the book sounds incredible. You're doing amazing things, and I'm sure our readers are chomping at the bit to find out where they can find you and the book online and in stores. Are you able to share? Sure.
[00:29:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:57] Speaker A: The book's available in all the places. It's on Amazon and it's available in Kindle. It's also. I have it on audible, if you'd prefer to listen. All the indie bookstores, if they don't have it in stock, can order it it for you. And people can follow me on social media, Instagram, and Facebook. My handle is navigating shit storms.
And if they like to stay in touch and be privy to the inside scoop and what's happening, they can sign up on my website, which is, Liz Long writes, and I don't bombard people. You know, the. The shitty boys in my head says, oh, you need to send out something to your subscribers every single week so that they know what to expect. And you have to be consistent. And that's not what I do.
And I've just let that be what it is. And sometimes I'll send a couple in a month, sometimes a couple months will go by before I send anything out, but they can connect with me there. Lizlongwrites.com amazing.
[00:30:58] Speaker D: Well, thank you so much for your time and expertise, Liz. That was incredible.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: That was great to chat, Joanne, thank you for having me.
[00:31:10] Speaker C: So there you have it, folks. The truly incredible Liz long. She resides in Canada, and I just absolutely love that interview with Liz. I think she's courageous. I think she's brave. I think that, you know, everyone should go out and read her book. We can all connect with it. And, yeah, fantastic episode there. Next time on the Hybrid author podcast, we have illustrator, educator, and author Rachel Robertson on just write for kids picture book, our australian heart. I wish you well in your author adventure this next week. That's it from me. Bye for now.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: That's the end for now. Authors, I hope you're further forward in your author adventure after listening, and I hope you'll listen next time. Remember to head on over to the hybrid author website at www.hybridauthor.com dot au to get your free author pass. It's bye for now.
