[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello authors. I'm Joanne Morell, children's and young adult fiction writer and author of short nonfiction for authors. Thanks for joining me for the hybrid author podcast, sharing interviews from industry professionals to help you forge a career as a hybrid author, both independently and traditionally publishing your book. You can get the show notes for each episode and sign up for your free author pass over at the hybrid author website to discover your writing process, get tips on how to publish productively, and get comfortable promoting your books at www.hybridauthor.com au. Let's crack on with the episode.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Hello authors. I hope you're all keeping well in whatever part of the world you reside and listen to the podcast in today's interview is with award winning contemporary and speculative fiction author Zena Shapter, and we're chatting earning money with emotion ways of monetizing a creative career how creatives might make money with emotions via the japanese concept Ikigai how Zena has applied earning money through emotion in her own author career Zena's advice to authors struggling to tap into the emotional aspects of their work, and much more so on my author adventure this week. Pop the corks because I have finally managed to get my women's fiction manuscript away to my editor, which coincidelly is quite funny that this interview has appeared today now because Zena Schapter, who I met via the podcast, is actually my editor for the writer, the hairdresser, and the nurse. So it was quite good that I got the manuscript away to heart. And also I'm releasing this podcast episode as well. So as you know, I've been talking about the women's fiction book for probably the better half of I would have been talking about it last year, but more so the better half of the end of 2023. So it feels like it's been quite a hard slog to get it together. It's been amazing. It's been hard because it's been the longest form work that I've written so far. It's told from three different character perspectives. So juggling those Stories altogether just yeah, I'm so proud of this work and it's not even finished. I know that when the package, like when it is ready and held in my hand, I'm going to be bursting with pride. I'm really, really proud of myself as well for not rushing this work. So the deadline that I had to get the work through to my editor was like the 1 December. So I'm effectively about four weeks late and it just wasn't where it needed to be and I wasn't just going to send it through without it being where it needed to be. There's just absolutely no point. And I have learned this through the many years of writing manuscripts and rush. The first one I ever done, I rushed and put it out there, although I spent a year writing it. So in hindsight, it's kind of like, was that a rush? But personally, there was a process there. And, yeah, I've come so far in learning what the process is, what needs to be done, and staying true to the process as well. And always, always go with your gut. I always talk about that first work and how some parts didn't sit right with me, and I pushed at it anyway. And I dealt with crippling self doubt, and I have dealt with a lot of insecurities, author fears, as I call them. And if your work is the best it can be, it feels right. You have put your all into it, and there's no little niggling doubts anywhere. That is when it's ready to emerge. And you can always write it over and over again. And I could continuously waste time going over manuscripts. I've been quicker on the mark with this one, I think in terms of not rereading over it, that's what I've been guilty of in the past, and I think that's why manuscripts have taken me so long. But, yeah, I'm just so excited about this work. So finally, woohoo. But being obviously four weeks late, it was more of a hard slog getting past the deadline, because we're in school holidays with the children, so I've got them full time and my kids are older, so they can just see to themselves. But you're still feeling a bit guilty that you're working as much as you are when they're there and all the rest. But at the end of the day, if I had a normal day job out of the house, at an office, that's what would be the case. That's life, unfortunately. And the kids are quite happy. But I also went down with COVID over new year. That's how I spent new year. I was working on my manuscript. That's when I had planned to pop the cork and get that sent through. But I did as much as I could. I was out for about eldest. Caught it first, and then I started to get a dry cough, and then I blew my nose, and then I had it for. I was positive for about four days. Felt a bit yucky. It wasn't as bad as the first time that I had it, honestly, the fatigue took me out for nearly two weeks, so I did feel a bit more fatiguey, but it wasn't as bad. It's just the isolation. You just feel you're climbing the walls and you don't have to do all the isolating now. But it's common if you had a cold or you had a flu, it's common decency among humans not to pass on bugs and stuff like that. So yeah, Covid's definitely making the rounds here, I think, as is the rest of the world, but we're all just living with it now. So that took me out for a bit. Yeah. And there was just a few days, obviously off days where there's other things that take my attention, like this workshops I'm running next week. If you've been watching me on social media, I am conducting two workshops and they're the same workshops, just two over next week. So it is my nonfiction books. So that series is called author linings and it's five books under different topics. I've only got two out at the moment, but the first one I ever wrote was came out after I set up as a freelance writer, after I set up a freelance writing business, after I graduated from uni after doing my writing degree. And I just learned so many little tidbits to help. Like, it would have been really good had I known them beforehand. But there's also processes as well in business that again, if you know these and you have them off the bat, your business will run absolutely smooth as anything. And you could probably, there's some you could apply to authorship, but not really. So this workshop is the four documents you need to set up your freelance writing business for success. So it's really aimed at freelance writing startups. So anyone who knows of anybody like this in the Perth area, please, please send them away. Seats are limited. I've kept them at ten just to have a nice, small, intimate audience. But it is next week. The first one is Thursday the 18th of Jan. 630 till 830 at Edith Cowan University, the Mount Lawley campus, and I'll share links in the show notes. And its next one is on Sunday, the 21 January, and that's at 130 till 330. And that's ECU Jundalup campus. So one Thursday night at ECU McLolly, one Sunday at Jundalup, and both the same workshop, 2 hours. The cost is $45. And in that the attendee gets, they actually get a copy of my book, freelance writing quick tips for fast success to take away, which includes 60 plus quick tips on business value, rates of pay mindset, business mindset, all these sort of things. But that's not what we discuss in the workshop. They will also get the templates to the four documents that I feel a freelance writing business needs to get it off the ground and for better working processes. So I found out obviously this by doing all my nonfiction books are through lived experience. So I know what I'm talking about. I've been there, I've done it. These processes will help any freelance writing person just run their business effectively.
I remember when I got my first freelance writing client and they phoned and it was like, so where can we meet? And I thought, oh, and I had no process set up to deal with clients or anything like that. Now, people might be different, but these four documents I found are essential so they will help that person look professional, provide easy processes to run their business, give fast efficiency for working environments, stop miscommunication and cover you both legally and professionally, get you paid in a quick and seamless manner, which is most important, and ultimately set your business up for smooth success. So you can book tickets through, try booking and so just look up the four documents you need to set up your freelance writing business for success. Links in the show notes I hope to see you there or anyone you feel will benefit from this. So just quickly back to where I'm at now, my author venture, because I am effectively four weeks out of deadline. So my schedule for the year I should now be. There's a lot of business admin I need to catch up on. I wanted to put the podcast onto YouTube last year, which I didn't meet and I'm going to be doing in January. And I need to just update the website and some documents that are linked with it and just make sure that all my correspondence meet what the hybrid author stands for now, which is ultimately is a resource for authors, writers who want to write across genres, who want to publish many different ways, who wants to have a hybrid author career, they want to do this as a business, they want to do it full time. They want to do all the things, all the ways effectively as well, because it is a bit of a juggling act with commitments and stuff. But it feels like this year, with the way that I have scheduled things and the pseudonyms that I've got effectively after February, well, now I will have three. Well, how many have I got? One, two, three genres that I write in and yeah, anyways, so the work that I should be doing in Jan now is behind, obviously, but I actually think that that's not going to be a problem because there's still a couple of weeks left of January, and I feel like that will give me enough time to get what I need done as well. So I'm feeling pretty happy about my work situation, what I've got to come. I feel like I've got a clear direction in sight because of the scheduling and the organizational stuff that I sat down and done last year and had it all ready. So that really helps because I've noticed some weeks I have to make there's a process and I'll be sharing it later on this year that really helps me focus and achieve what I need to achieve. And yeah, that's going to all be part of the organized author, which is a nonfiction book which may or may not get out this year, depending on time. I kind of have it there as a maybe, but we'll see how it goes. But I find if I don't write down or schedule what I'm doing for the week with a rough idea that that's what I want to achieve in my mind. I'm really floundering and I end up going wherever it needs to take me. And maybe that's an okay case some weeks, but I find I'm much better productive to achieve more when I have a rough idea of what I'm getting done. And that's not do this at 01:00 blah blah blah, because sometimes that doesn't work for me, but there'll be more to that to come. So where are you now that we're mid through Jan with your I've been noticing a lot of things on social media. From messages, it seems like the message this year is that it's okay to rest, it's okay to do nothing more. Pajama days over, say, like crazy busy days. A lot of this work till you drop dead stuff seems to be falling by the wayside. A lot of people are just slowly starting to get back into things now. It seemed to be last week. Yeah, the eigth of January things started opening up. So it feels like a slow emergence into the year for some. I feel like I have been flat out because obviously I'm still tracing last year's deadlines and that has always been my issue the last few years, something that I want to nip in the bud, and I think this will be the year that I do it because my organizational scheduling processes are in full swing, pretty much.
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[00:13:08] Speaker D: Zena Shapter writes from a castle in a flying city hidden by a thundercloud, reaching across age and genre into the heart of storytelling. A multi award winning author of speculative and contemporary fiction, she loves conjuring journeys into the beyond and unusual and is the author of books such as when dark roots hunt, song of the cowwall towards White, and co author of Intertordin. When not writing, Zena loves movies, frogs, chocolate potatoes and living with her family among Sydney's beautiful northern beaches. Welcome to the hybrid author podcastina oh.
[00:13:41] Speaker E: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:13:42] Speaker D: We are thrilled and honoured to have you. It sounds like you've had a lengthy author adventure and lots of success, but can you tell us from the beginning, how did you join the writing and publishing world?
[00:13:53] Speaker E: It was a bit of a wiggly road for me. The signs were there if I had seen them earlier. When I was ten, my teacher accused me of plagiarism. I'd written a poem on owls and hedgehogs and she said you couldn't possibly have written it.
My parents had to come into school and see the headmistress to verify that I wasn't a cheat. And then the teacher proudly put it on the wall. And then when I remember when I was 14, my teacher discovered I'd been writing 72 stanza poem about a cavalier and had me read it out class. I was not popular that week among when I was 16, I established a writer's group at school because there wasn't one and I felt there was a gap there. I then did English at uni, but the whole time writing was something I did, something that I used to express every thought and feeling I had, but it was not a job. So I tried publishing journalism, went back to uni and studied law, became an intellectual property solicitor, then realized I had sold my soul because I was a writer all the time I was writing, of course, I wrote several novels, and then I switched careers back into publishing and have been there ever since. Developed my narrative voice, won lots of writing competitions, lots of stories published and novels too, and couldn't be happier now.
[00:15:09] Speaker D: Wow, that's such an incredible story. I love that the teacher sort of called you out for cheating. That's crazy.
But yeah, it sounds like that was your calling. I'm also always blown away to hear when people sit down and do this in their younger years because I was.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: Just such a flake.
[00:15:28] Speaker D: I always admire that. Fantastic. Well, today we are chatting about earning money with emotion. So first up, can you please share with us? How do you define that topic?
[00:15:39] Speaker E: Well, this is something I wish I had known when I was younger, because if I'd known this, I would have realized that it could be a job. So I define it as how creatives have to monetize their emotions to support their craft. And I tell it to as many young people as I can find, if you are a creative, and we all know deep down if we are, there are ways to monetize it. And if you just pursue that monetization and diversification of your skills, you can make a living. You don't have to sell your soul, you don't have to do something your parents want you to do. You don't have to feel yourself doing a job that makes you miserable. You can have this wonderful life I now have where I get to be creative every day.
[00:16:25] Speaker D: Yeah. No, that's amazing. Do you feel that's true more in these days than, say, in the past? Because of the technologies we have and the opportunities we have for taking charge of our creative destinies effectively with indie publishing and all sorts of other things.
[00:16:39] Speaker E: Yes, definitely. And how much creativity is valued now as part of everyone's lifestyle. When I think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, that triangle that shows us how people can survive and thrive in life. And at the bottom, you have the physiological aspects, food, water, shelter, rest. And then next row up, safety and security. Next row, longing. Next row up, self esteem. And very, very much at the top, self actualization. That's where creatives work. So you can see how it can often get left to the last minute, because all the other things are more important sometimes in life. But for those people who understand creativity is part of self actualizing and self expression. That's kind of where creatives can operate and can help other people live a fulfilled life. So if you are a creative, you can live in that space, but if you're not 100% creative, but you like to do a little bit of creativity, you can also access people who are working in that space. And that's all been enabled by technology, but also with this shift in culture, to appreciate the nature of creativity and the value it has for all of us in life. In our lives.
[00:17:49] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. And also, I used to would probably have stereotypically thought of creatives like writer, artist, singer, someone in these kind of industries, and it's about the talent and what they can offer. But these days, it's definitely creativity comes into marketing businesses. Business itself is really creative. Everyone's looking for storytellers or innovation to express themselves through social media. It's a prominent part, isn't it, in all industries, I think, in this day.
[00:18:21] Speaker E: And age, and to express and share their experience. A lot of my clients as an editor are businessmen who want to express and share their experience of leadership or entrepreneurship, and they do so through writing a book, but not being a creative, then they need some help with that, and that's where an editor can come in and help them. And then they have a book which they can use in their professions to show other people their expertise and whole.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: World a better book.
[00:18:53] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. So how can authors implement some of this? Earning money with emotion into their author businesses? What are some of the things that they could do?
[00:19:03] Speaker E: All right, so here we're thinking about people who definitely are creatives, and they want to support that craft through using their skills. So do you know ikigai? It's the japanese concept about reason for being.
[00:19:17] Speaker D: No, I haven't heard of that one.
[00:19:18] Speaker E: I encourage all creatives to look it up. It's spelled I-K-I-G-A ikigai. And what you'll see on the Internet when you look it up is several venn diagram type things overlapping. And it's basically, I'm sure that people who are very well versed in ikigai will not like the simplicity of what is out there on the Internet. But essentially, you think about that which you love, that which you are good at, that which the world needs, and that which you can be paid for, and those all overlap. And where that which you love and that which you're good at overlaps, that's passion. Where that which you love and that which the world needs overlaps. That's your mission, where that which the world needs and what you can be paid for overlaps, that's your vocation. And finally, what you're good at and what you can be paid for overlaps, that's your profession. And when I look at that and I look at my skills and I look at my interests, I can write all over the diagram. Well, that which I love is creating stories. That's easy. What am I good at? I'm good at creating and writing. And I'm also really good with detail. I can be paid for editing layouts, mentoring, teaching. What about, what does the world need from me? And for a while, I wasn't quite sure what that was. And then I realized I was already doing it because I was establishing writers and I was working in the community to raise the profile of creativity and I was making sure everything was really inclusive. And then I found myself tutoring teenagers and I realized, well, what the world needs from me is to do this, to raise the profile of creativity. And then I can also be paid for that teaching and doing appearances. So if other creatives really look at this icky guy concept and they look at what they love and where these things overlap with what they're good at, what their skills actually are, and what the world need, then that can tell them what they can be paid for. And in all of that, obviously, as creatives, we are accessing our emotion in the process of all our creating. And once we develop, hopefully, an authentic and emotionally resident writing style, you can then use that within that structure to really build your business. So that's the first step.
[00:21:37] Speaker D: Wow, that's so interesting. Yeah, I haven't heard of that, but it makes absolute sense and really clear logic as well.
That's the first step.
[00:21:48] Speaker E: That's self awareness, isn't it? Becoming aware of the skills you have, the passions you have. And then once you have that awareness, then you can look at where the gaps are, and those are the gaps where you need to diversify your skills. That's the second step. Where can I diversify my skills? You got to think of yourself as an entrepreneur of emotion. And once you can find those gaps and see how you potentially make money through those gaps, then you can develop your skills as well through this, your own. Well, in case of writers, a writing style, or whatever type of creative you are, a style that accesses those emotions and then that's practice. So you need to write as a writer. You write your emotions as often as possible while they're still raw and alive. And that's a real challenge. If you can write about an emotionally charged experience and make sense of what you're writing, then you can probably tackle anything, because emotions is one of the most challenging aspects of the human experience because they're so complex and they're so contradictory. Probably why English is compulsory for HSC here in Australia. Because you can like ice cream and you can like chocolate and you can like milk as I do. But I don't like chocolate ice cream and I don't like chocolate milkshakes. And I can do that because I am a complex human being with complex emotions about all things in life.
We need to understand that and unpack that. And if we can express that through our art, our creativity, then we can express anything. And then we can help others do that and people will pay us to help them do that.
[00:23:28] Speaker D: Yeah, no, those are some really good points there. While you're talking, sort of, I'm going back in my mind of when I started writing, and I think it was very much just sort of write and see what happens.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: There was no plan, there wasn't anything.
[00:23:43] Speaker D: In place, and it was really just all about what was going to happen and stuff like that. And then in later works that I've written, I found the emotional stuff was coming out a bit more the way that the characters, it sort of tackled like a page and was thinking more about how do they feel here? What am I trying to evoke emotionally and going forward that way?
[00:24:03] Speaker B: And my work has kind of changed.
[00:24:05] Speaker D: And I remember being a younger person, probably the Internet might been around and stuff, but I used to look through books for answers and I guess a connection. And I think that's how we connect with our readers and people who will read our work is through the emotion and what we write. So what you were saying there is. Yeah, it absolutely connects. Can you share any examples of your own works and how you've kind of tapped into your emotional, not state, but through some of your books or evoked emotion that you felt at the end? This connection is going to. Do you know what I mean?
[00:24:45] Speaker B: Or badly put question?
[00:24:49] Speaker E: Yes. No, I mean, it starts with, as I said, pushing yourself emotionally with your writing. And if you start. I started quite young, so that writing was a catharsis for me, and that led to a writing process that was incredibly honest about pain. And then when I started winning awards, my most successful stories were those that touched readers emotionally. And I realized that. So I realized it was offering them a chance to explore their own pain affecting change in their lives. So being honest about pain kind of formed the basis of my personal writing process. And if I can write a story and I can cry at the end of it, I know I've succeeded. So if I'm not kind of crying at the end, or at least choking up a little bit, then there might still be some more work to do. So I think also with writing, because I enter competitions and I judge competitions. And so with the emotional connection that you were talking about before, that's what I look for in other writing. And it's not necessarily techniques, it's just honesty. And so I look for that in others writing as well as my own. But most specifically, and most recently, I suppose, when I'm thinking about how I wrote, when dark roots hunt, I wanted to tap into the emotions of young people today. And so I interviewed a bunch of them about their feelings about the future. And most of them I was going.
[00:26:11] Speaker D: To say, that's interesting. What did they say?
[00:26:13] Speaker E: Yes, they said, because I wanted to know what they wanted to read about. And they said that they'd learnt enough about drugs, alcohol, sex and depression at school and they didn't want to read any more about it. When reading for pleasure, they wanted to escape, to see their perspective authentically represented and to explore their concerns. So I said, what concerns you? And they said they were worried about what kind of world they would inherit, about job ambiguity, political instability, threat of war, the environment, sustainability, automated technology and australian property prices I thought was very mature, isn't it?
[00:26:46] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:26:47] Speaker E: They often said, I don't know how I'm ever going to be able to afford a home of my own. So listening to those and then as a creative who feels for other people, tap into those feelings. And then in my head, I created a world where there wasn't much. So when dark roots hunt is very much a world predominantly of water and swamp, with just towering hill farms, with just a small bit of land on the top. And this makes resources very scarce as political unrest. The future is scary, unknown. And so it resonates with contemporary young adult readers as well as adult readers, because we're all concerned about those same things as well. And, yeah, so tapping into their emotions and feeling them and thinking about them from their perspective has helped me create a whole world. And then from there you build a character and a plot, but the whole world itself is based on what people have been telling me. But even for other works as well, if there's anything that I can't emotionally connect with, and this is something that other authors might do, but if they don't do definitely do it. I pick a similar experience I have had. So the start of my novel towards white starts with a dive scene, but you would never know from reading that opening that I'd never been diving, but I have been snorkeling. So I access the emotion that I get from snorkeling, the sense of awe and wonder and amazement at the natural world, and layer that on top of the dive scene, very consciously thinking of it as a snorkeling and then changing into diving and drawing on the emotions that I would feel in one experience. But it being another experience.
[00:28:34] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. No, that's really interesting there. And is there any tips that you can offer to authors who might be struggling to tap into their own emotional aspects of the work? Have you ever heard of any exercises people can do to try and open the floodgates?
[00:28:53] Speaker E: Yes. Look, there's the Mars bar technique, which I do like, and then there's just practicing having raw emotions. The Mars bar technique is about thinking about a character in terms of wounds, wants, needs, and lies. So every character. Characters are not people. People have many, many wounds.
But with a character, they generally have a smaller number of wounds to make it easier for readers to see their progression as a person. So they'll have a wound, but they'll be lying to themselves about that wound, and the lie will result in something that they want. What they want isn't really what they need. So, for example, let's say I want a mini Mars bar. That's my want. Why do I want it? Because I had a bad night's sleep last night, and I think it will give me energy. That's the lie. So I want a mini Mars bar. I'm wounded by a poor night sleep. I'm lying to myself. That will give me energy. What I really need, perhaps, is to take a break. Not the Mars bar, but the Mars bar technique is just a good way to get into a character, and then it breaks it down into, what are those wounds? And then thinking about those wounds, compare them to, you might not have had the wound that your character has, but you might have had a similar one. So then we have a similar wound, and then you can think about your wounds. And I would say to authors, to just allow yourself to crack open.
It's very hard when we're talking about emotions with friends and family. We tend to water it down a lot. We don't want to be judged by even our closest friends and family, and we don't want it to be used against us in the future.
If people want to refer back to conversations. So we tend to be very protective about them. But when it's another character and you write with the door closed and you don't worry about any judgment, you just get it down. You're courageous. You tell the character's story from your heart as if you are them, and you speak from within so that readers will hear you. Then afterwards, you can open the door and edit. This is not anything new, but it's just a reminder. William Wordsworth, the romantic poet, he once said, fill the paper. Fill your paper with the breathings of your heart. And like most forms of creativity, good writing comes from both skill and art working together. Skill comes from developing a learned understanding of your chosen genre and a lot of practice that art comes from within. So you just got to keep reminding yourself that it has to come from within. You might start with an inclination to express yourself in some way. Then that inclination builds into a passion for the subject matter at hand. You add a degree of talent for understanding and harnessing emotion and thought. Then you finish with a willingness to share some part of yourself with others. So you have to get over the self conscious barrier. Tells you to water down your emotions, tells you there's a danger of having your inner turmoil judged. But without it, readers just won't connect. Have to find comparative experiences. Great.
I get a lot of life story clients as well. Bit more difficult for them because it is obviously them that they're writing on the page, and they've just got to simply open up more and put their feelings on the page as authentically as possible. And then maybe have readers and editors who can warn them if they've gone too far.
[00:32:13] Speaker D: Yeah. Oh, wow. That's really interesting. I've never heard of the Mars bar thing before, but as you were saying, I thought this would be a great technique to put even just into your everyday life. No, you don't need that Mars bar. That's why.
[00:32:25] Speaker E: Well, the Mars technique, that's me. I do love chocolates, so anything to the wounds once needs lie thing is not new. It's been out there. But maybe I'm the only one to compare it to a Mars bar.
[00:32:42] Speaker D: Yeah, I think so. No, that's really good. Obviously, you've spoke about so much earning money with emotion and through our author business as well as yourself, you obviously offer services and things like that, working directly with clients. And do you do teachings with this kind of emotional stuff?
[00:33:01] Speaker E: Yes, all of the above.
I do love mentoring.
It's a very cost effective way for a writer to build their skills, because they can do as much or as little as they need. And I love editing as well, though, because then I get to really show writers where they could add more, where they could put more emotion, where skills can be edited. But the emotion side of things, it does need to come from the author. And I can't edit that in to their work. If they've gone too far or if their skills aren't there, I can polish that up. But putting something of themselves from themselves, those meaningful elements that are them as a writer, that has to come from deep inside them, in their heart, in their mind, what makes them vulnerable, what makes them think. And getting all of that onto paper, that has to come from them.
[00:34:00] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that's amazing. So obviously, you do mentoring and editing and you must go and do speaking. And are you still doing all the writers groups and things?
[00:34:08] Speaker E: Yeah, exactly. Because that's what the world needs from me going back to icky guy. So, yes, I would do the workshops and the writers group. That's what the world needs. That which I can be paid for would be the editing, book layouts, mentoring and teaching. But I'm just good at helping others generally. I love helping others. It's just a natural instinct, I suppose.
[00:34:29] Speaker D: All these things, like is the book writing your main passion, your main drive? And then all these things kind of feed off that.
[00:34:37] Speaker E: That's the passion. Yes, it's all in service of my passion. That's what motivates me to other than just simply liking, helping other people with their creativity. It enables me to sit with my laptop outside and put one word after another as often as I can every day. And that is my absolute passion, creating worlds and characters and expressing everything.
How much fun it is.
[00:35:11] Speaker D: Definitely a very special career. And yeah, I feel very lucky that we get to do it. But thank you so much, Zena, for your time and expertise. You've shared so much with us. Can our listeners discover where we can find your books on and offline and all the stuff that you offer shouldn't say stuff. All the services, the amazing services you offer.
[00:35:32] Speaker E: Well, I'm very lucky to have an unusual name. So if you just look for Zena, Z-E-N-A chapter, S-H-A-P-T-E-R I'll come up. My website is zenashapter.com. I'm on social media at Zenashapter. Yeah, it's just everywhere. Zena Shapter.
[00:35:52] Speaker D: Fantastic. Well, thank you, Zena. That was fantastic.
[00:35:54] Speaker E: Thank you very much for having me. I love talking about anything to do with writing creativity and today, emotion.
[00:36:01] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: So there you have it, folks, the absolutely all inspiring Zena chapter. Go check out all Zena has to offer over on her website. And you can tell from this interview that she knows so much and you can learn so much from her as I am. Next time on the hybrid Author podcast, we have a very young author, Mel Torafranca, and she's joining us to chat all about what motivates young authors to write. I wish you well on your author adventure this next week. That's it for me. Bye for now.
[00:36:33] Speaker A: That's the end for now, authors, I hope you are further forward in your author adventure after listening. And I hope you'll listen next time. Remember to head on over to the hybrid author
[email protected]. Dot au to get your free author pass.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: It's bye for now.
